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Spiritual Education

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The Quran, an English translation by MAS Abdel Haleem...free pdf

Salaam Everyone,
Quick recommendation:
Abdel Halim, The Quran free pdf
It's a personal favourite and my hardcopy always ends up being passed on to a friend lol.
I hope it helps, inshaAllah!
As the Prophet ﷺ said:
Verily the one who recites the Qur’an beautifully, smoothly, and precisely, he will be in the company of the noble and obedient angels. And as for the one who recites with difficulty, stammering or stumbling through its verses, then he will have twice that reward.” (Sahih)
The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) also said,
“Whoever recites a letter from the Book of Allah, he will be credited with a good deed, and a good deed gets a ten-fold reward. I do not say that Alif-Lam-Mim is one letter, but Alif is a letter, Lam is a letter and Mim is a letter.” (At- Tirmidhi)
Finally, a gentle reminder to read/ understand as much as possible, especially now in Ramadan... we can do it, inshaAllah!
submitted by Aykiz_lives to islam [link] [comments]

English Translation of the Quran PDF book Translated by Muhammad Ali | SharingeBook - Download Free PDF Books Legally

English Translation of the Quran PDF book Translated by Muhammad Ali | SharingeBook - Download Free PDF Books Legally submitted by webdeveloper5050 to Muslim [link] [comments]

Holy Quran English Translation Free Download Pdf

Holy Quran English Translation Free Download Pdf submitted by iqbalkalmati to u/iqbalkalmati [link] [comments]

Quran Saheeh International English Translation pdf

submitted by ucefkh to islam [link] [comments]

Thoughts on this W.D. community English translation of Quran? [PDF inside]

I haven't seen this mentioned in the multitude of posts recommending English translations in this sub.
I'm on Surah Imran as of yet and it's an interesting approach. I've always had a difference of opinion on the translation of 1:4
Maliki yawmi addeen
is commonly translated to
Master of the Day of Judgment.
Even though the word "deen" means religion, perhaps someone can enlighten me?
Anyway, this translation states:
Sole Judge of the Day of Religion.
Which immediately caught my attention and intrigue and I went, aha, finally!
PDF can be obtained here: http://newqurantranslation.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/quran-2013-1.pdf
submitted by ascetic_savant to islam [link] [comments]

Liberté d'expression, laïcité, Charlie Hebdo : un vade-mecum pour les subs étrangers ?

UN GRAND MERCI À TOUS ET TOUTES ! Pour rendre ce texte plus facilement partageable aux non-francophones, les informations relatives au message lui-même ont été mises en fin de texte.
EDIT : ajout de segments sur la stigmatisation des musulmans et Dieudonné, n'hésitez pas à apporter corrections et précisions si besoin.
HOW DOES FREE SPEECH WORK IN FRENCH LAW ?
French law is simple: people have rights, ideas don't have any.
What that means is that:
You can satirize, criticize, mock, do anything to ideas, symbols, etc. Only people are protected by the law. There are a very few exceptions to that principle, but religion is not one of them.
WHAT ARE THOSE EXCEPTIONS?
Three main exceptions:
  • Denial of crimes against humanity that have been sentenced as such by a french or international court (this, obviously, includes the holocaust). This law has been and is still discussed: some argue that the political power should not interfere in history discussions.
  • Glorifying terrorism (it's a very old law: 1881).
  • Insulting the national flag. This one is a very recent (2003) and controversial law - and its pretty limited: the Conseil d'État ruled that this law applies only to "disturbing the peace" ; insulting the french flag is allowed for those who "want to communicate, by doing this, political or philosophical ideas, or who do it as an artistic or creative act".
WOULDN'T IT BE BETTER TO RESTRICT FREEDOM OF SPEECH TO WHAT IS NOT OFFENSIVE FOR OTHERS?
It would be a bad idea.
First, free speech doesn't make sense if it only works to please everyone. If a dictator forbids free speech, it's because he usually doesn't want people to say bad things about him, not because he's afraid of receiving compliments...
But most of all, in a society in which free speech should bow to your feelings, a LOT of things would be forbidden... including religions. For a lot of people in modern society, some principles are sacred: for instance the idea that apostates, women who have sex before marriage, or same sex couples aren't guilty of anything. The holy books of the three religion are therefore deeply offensive to them: they could just as well ask to forbid those writings...
There is no logical reason for which, in a society, some citizens should be considered more "holy" than others, or their feelings more important than those of others.
The limitations in free speech laws are only made to protect people - their safety, or their reputation. Not their ideas, nor their feelings.
SO WHY DID SINÉ GET FIRED AFTER MAKING FUN OF JUDAISM?
Siné was fired from Charlie Hebdo after making, in a text, a remark on the marriage of Sarkozy's son with a jewish girl, suggesting he was choosing to convert to Judaism to marry a rich heiress. The chain of events is complicated (see the wiki page), and the Charlie Hebdo director from those years (Phillipe Val) who fired him is still very controversial.
The LICRA (association against racism and antisemitism) filed a complaint against him after this. Siné was acquitted of all charges.
To sum this up:
  • Siné was accused of stigmatization against Jews (people), not their religion (idea).
  • His being fired from Charlie Hebdo is the sole responsibility of the director of that period, not french laws.
  • France, through its judicial system, confirmed that Sine was free to say what he said.
AND WHY DIEUDONNÉ WAS FORCED TO STOP HIS SHOW WHEN HE MADE FUN OF JEWS?
Dieudonné is a talented stand-up comedian, which gradually made attacks on Jews his specialty - and as time went by, he became close to the far right (Soral, Lepen). There are two very different affairs about him.
Note that, in those two affairs, he was never accused of mocking the Jewish religion (idea), but of hate speech, racist insults and defemation against Jews (people), of glorifying terrorism, and of denial of crime against humanity.
  • The first affair is the one everybody heard of: the cancelling of his show. In 2013-2014, Dieudonné is presenting a new one-man-show, and some parts of it are considered borderline antisemitic. But wait for a trial to confirm that would have been long, and the politic power at that time (french minister Manuel Valls) didn't want to let the show still publicly attack Jews every night without doing nothing. So, through his departmental prefects (which obey to political power), he asked to stop the show for "trouble à l'ordre public" ("disturbing public order"). That's not really what "trouble à l'ordre public" is usually used for (it's mainly made for meetings judged dangerous), but it's still possible to do it for a show, through an unique case law of 1995 (case law, aka "jurisprudence", is decisive in french law). This decision opened a huge and violent debate in France, including between its different institutions (the administrative court of the city of Nantes canceled the canceling of the show, then the State Council canceled the cancel of the canceling of the show...). This decision is still debated today, and judged illegitimate by many.
  • That said, there is another affair, or several in fact, which are not known at all abroad: the fact that, on the same matter, Dieudonné was found guilty several times after proper trials. Between 2007 and 2020, he was convicted 11 times (for "call to hate", for "racist defamation", for "racial insult", for "apology of terrorism"...). Those convictions have been confirmed on appeal, and are not a french obsession: he has been also condemned for the same things in Belgium, in Quebec, and one of his french sentences has been confirmed by the European Court of Human Rights.
To sum this up:
  • Dieudonné was never convicted for attacks on Jewish religion, but for attacks on Jews, denial of crime against humanity, and glorifying terrorism.
  • He has been found guilty of this 11 times by french justice, but also by the judicial system of Belgium, of Quebec, and by the European Court of Human Rights.
  • Nevertheless, the political power of 2014 hasn't waited for a trial to stop one of his shows with antisemitic parts, and cancelled it in a way which, while still legal, was jugged abusive and problematic by a big part of french society, including some of its institutions.
BUT WHY DOES CHARLIE HEBDO ONLY TARGET ISLAM?
Note, before anything else, that Charlie Hebdo is an independent newspaper: the French government doesn't decide what is published in it. They're read by only a very small part of the population. It only represents itself. And anyone is free to file a complaint against them.
That said, Charlie Hebdo, which is a critical and satirical left-wing newspaper (anti-far-right, antimilitarist, anticlerical, propalestinian...), and the heir of an anarchist-libertarian french press, has a long history in making fun (and even being plain rude/disrespectful) of anything and anyone. This includes all religions, and Islam is far from being the main focus, as shown by this statistic of the front covers of Charlie hebdo during the ten years that preceded the killings: https://i.imgur.com/1CeIQwU.png
For those who think they are harsher on Islam, here is an example of a recent cover they made about Christianity: https://p1.storage.canalblog.com/28/07/177230/82450171.jpg
The three main religions are in fact often targeted together: https://jewpop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/charliehebdoproces.Jewpopjpg.jpg
And for those who think they are nicer to the jewish community, here is one of their drawing on Isreal killing children in Palestine: https://p6.storage.canalblog.com/62/81/177230/100527364_o.jpg
The main target of Charlie Hebdo, that said, is mainly far right politicians like Le Pen, not religion.
BUT SOME CHARLIE HEBDO CARTOONS COULD BE CONSIDERED RACIST!
On decades and thousands of drawings, there are very few cartoons that have been considered racist. Their idea to be "bête et méchant" ("stupid and nasty") with everyone (the main equivalent, in the US, would not be The Onion, but more something like South Park) lead them to sometimes cross the line.
For instance with this drawing (which is not a cover) : https://www.actuabd.com/local/cache-vignettes/L450xH536/riss-aylan-382e8.jpg?1580041384
Don't think it got a free pass: this drawing, as well as some others, was heavily discussed at that time in French society. But no one filed a complaint: you still can, if you want to.
IF FREE SPEECH IS SO IMPORTANT, WHY DOESN'T FRANCE LET COUNTRIES BOYCOTT ITS PRODUCTS, OR ERDOGAN QUESTION THE MENTAL HEALTH OF MACRON?
As far as France didn't forbid anything (just reacted to it), the French statement demanding the immediate stop of boycotts in an authoritarian tone was indeed clumsy, to say the least. That said, the statement was also highlighting the fact that those boycotts were a reaction to lies and distortions of words. This would not contradict free speech laws in France: defamation, in France like in any other country, is a limit of free speech.
The reaction to Erdogan words were only due to the fact that a president literally insulted another one, a thing which never happens in diplomatic relationships even between unallied countries. The last political leader to do so was Duterte, who insulted Obama. Obama reacted by cancelling their meeting - at that time, nobody thought it was an abusive reaction.
IF FRANCE DOESN'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ISLAM, WHY DOES IT FORBID THE HIJAB?
The Hijab in general is not forbidden in France: you can wear it in the streets, in a concert hall, at your job on certain conditions (see below), etc.
But there are two exceptions. Note that those exceptions concern ALL ostensible religious signs (hijab, cross, kipas):
  • State-run school (primary school, middle-school, and highscool - college is not concerned). The school is considered a neutral ground, in which children must forge their own opinion, without outside pressure, without religious influence or influence from their parents. This doesn't only concern religion, it's a global principle of neutrality (religious, commercial, and political neutrality, which concerns teachers, but also students depending of the context : during an election time, a child woudln't be allowed to come in class with a t-shirt promoting his favorite presidential candidate, for instance). While the definitive law on the subject is recent, it has its roots deeper in french history: public education in France was born in a pretty harsh fight against religious catholic schools, more than a century ago.
  • State workers. In France, regarding religion, the State is totally neutral (there is no State religion or official religion). Therefore, all its workers (teachers, cops...) must be neutral too, as they represent the State in their interactions with its citizens.
As for jobs, it can only be forbidden in two cases: 1) a clause in the internal regulations of the company can demand than employees in contact with clients (and only them) do not show any personal convictions signs (whatever they are: religious, political, etc.), 2) it can be forbidden for safety, hygiene, or security reasons. But an employer can not ask a employee to not wear it just because he doesn't like it.
FRANCE STILL FORBIDS NIQAB AND BURQA EVERYWHERE!
Yes. And as much as all the other laws were designed for ALL religions, this one (which is very recent) is not. In concrete terms, this law forbids an individual to hide their face outside of certain contexts (for instance, it's allowed for sanitary reasons - the COVID mask is therefore not against the law).
This law was a reaction to niqab and burqa not as religious signs, but as political ones (the signs of a political/fundamentalist islam, associated with the Salafi movement). It was a huge debate here in France, and a lot of people, while being not very supportive of niqab, still think it was a bad move.
Note that France is not, by far, the only country to have forbidden these: Senagal, the Netherlands, Chad, Gabon, Austria, Cameroun and others have also forbidden them.
NEVERTHELESS, AREN'T MUSLIMS STIGMATIZED IN FRANCE?
We have to be more cautious here, as the answer that follows isn't based on something as factual as law. The short answer is "yes": they are stigmatized. But not by caricatures...
Muslims in France are for most or them Arabs, children or grandchildren of North Africans immigrants from the sixties and after. Like all immigrant waves before them (Italians, Portugueses...), they experienced racism, but there are several differences. Due to the time of their arrival in France, they settled in brand new suburbs buildings, in places in which they were not mixed with other frenchs: those places became with decades deserted by the State (regarding public services), and have now to deal with high unemployment, drug traffic, and the criminality which results from it. This led to very harsh confrontation with the Police, which took bad habits: a black or arab frenchman as 20 more chances to be controlled than a white one, as a national 2017 study shows. In addition to that, the colonial past of France, and especially all that concerns Algeria (its colonization, the Algerian war), took a long time to be recognized as such by the State - and as much as Macron recently qualified Algerian colonization as "crime against humanity" and a "barbaric act", this national work is still in process.
All that explains the easiness with which a more radical Islam took roots in some of those places, when salafi movements expanded in Europe: for a lot of young people living there, who feel hated by the State and the rest of society, "being Muslim" is the only identity and pride left. Therefore any attack on it (or law lived as an attack) is extremely badly experienced. This come-back of the religion in public spaces and of its demands, in a country which just finished to deal with his century fight against Catholic Church claims, provoked a vivid reaction on the other side.
This defiance against Islam became a tool for the far right in order to gain votes, then from the right politicians (including some current ministers) wanting to keep those votes. Religious extremists and racist people in France now take profit of the same kind of ambiguity: religious extremists say any limitation of their religious expression (due to the limitations of french free speech laws) are in fact an attack on Islam and Muslims ("Islamophobia") ; and the Far Right implies that every Muslims is an extremist who doesn't accept the french laïcité (an idea which is sadly encouraged by recent polls - even if pools, and the ambiguity of their questions, should always be read with caution). This confusion is helped by the fact that the political left, which in France is historically the keepewatcher of laïcité (a true laïcité, not a preference for Catholic church), is sometimes awkward with the subject concerning Islam, as it doesn't want to attack a religion whom believers already live discriminations as Arabs. And all that confusion is of course not helped by the 20 terrorist attacks made in the name of Islam that France lived in the last 8 years...
To sum this up: yes, it's not exaggerate to say there is a stigmatization of Muslims in France. But it has not a lot to do with the free speech law, or with the caricatures of the prophet, and favoring that confusion is playing the game of religious extremists on french soil. Left newspapers like Charlie Hebdo want to continue to fight racism AND to attack religions: to treat Muslims as equals (to attack their religion as any other one), not to patronize them. That's up to each person to decide if they're doing it right...
AND WHY DOES FRANCE HAVE BUSINESS DEALING IN WEAPONS OR OIL WITH EXTREMIST ISLAMIC STATES?
For cynical economic reasons. But as much as it is not a matter of pride, nor logical in a war against terrorism, it can not be used as an argument to invalidate french version of secularism, which is only about the separation of church and State. The same way we cannot invalidate the secularism legislations of all the countries which presently deal with China just because China locks Muslims into camps (among other niceties)...
SOME LINKS
Macron's speech for the national tribute to the beheaded teacher. This speech is the reason a part of the muslim world started boycotting France, and asked for apologies, pretending he attacked Islam in it. There is no such things in his speech (he only talks about radical Islam, and the liberty to caricature):
Al Jazeera interview with Macron :
SOURCES
POURQUOI CE MESSAGE, MISES À JOUR, ETC.
Hello tout le monde,
Comme pas mal ici, depuis une semaine, je passe mon temps à répondre aux mêmes questions, aux mêmes attaques mal informées ou fake news, aux mêmes comparaisons foireuses... Et quand je vais voir sur les subs étrangers, ce n'est pas mieux.
Je me demande du coup si ce ne serait pas utile de se faire un petit bilan, en anglais, auquel on puisse renvoyer, ou dont on puisse copiecoller des bouts pour répondre aux questions les plus habituelles. Même si au fond c'est une initiative qu'on aurait du prendre la semaine dernière, là c'est limite trop tard...
Le faire ensemble ici permettrait en tout cas de le corriger, de le sourcer, de peaufiner l'anglais, de le rendre plus objectif et froid, de vérifier les affirmations auprès des juristes s'il y en a parmi nous, etc. (EDIT : j'ai eu plein de retours pour la reformulation que j'ai appliqués, merci à tous, restons-en à présent à ce qui pourrait être factuellement faux (questions de droits, affirmations) ou fautes d'anglais objectives !).
Il y aurait encore d'autres choses, sur des objections que j'ai aussi pu croiser : le fait que l'antisonisme ait intégré la loi sur l'antisémitisme, par exemple, ou encore sur la fermeture d'Hara Kiri, une explication de la pensée du modèle laïque français et de pourquoi il diffère tant des autres pays (y compris les raisons historiques), un petit bilan de la stigmatisation dont peuvent souffrir les musulmans en France pour bien faire le tri entre les attaques à la religion et les attaques racistes (mais à documenter sérieusement)...
D'autres questions ont été proposées en réaction à ce post, comme ici et ici : si vous voulez vous y atteler et soumettre vos textes au jugement des autres: attention à rester court et factuel, et à ne pas chercher à "défendre" le pays, mais à simplement refroidir le truc en coupant court aux ambiguïtés possibles, y compris si ça met en lumière des failles et problèmes du côté français.
J'ai bien conscience que c'est délicat au sens où on a nous-mêmes des avis différents sur ces questions. Ça peut être aussi l'occasion d'en discuter.
Voilà ce qui me vient pour l'instant, par rapport aux questions qui nous sont le plus posées... (j'édite le texte ci-dessous en fonction de vos remarques).
EDIT: questions en suspend : toujours une hésitation sur la prise en compte de l'esclavage ou non dans la loi contre le négationnisme (qui est un beau bordel), un redditeur travaille dessus.
submitted by TB54 to france [link] [comments]

Social media is bad spiritually and psychologically.

I'll begin with a hadith:
Hudhayfah reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said,
Tribulation will be exposed to the hearts of people like a reed mat woven, stick by stick. Any heart afflicted by them will have a black mark put into it, but any heart that rejects them will have a white mark put into it. Thus, there will be two kinds of hearts: one is pure like a white gemstone; it will not be harmed by any trial as long as the heavens and earth endure. The other is black and dusty like a worn-out vessel, neither acknowledging good nor rejecting evil, rather absorbed in its desires.”
Sahih Muslim 144a
Reed mats are rectangular in shape, just like mobile phones and television. What's interesting is that this hadith talks about this "reed mat" shaped fitnah causing hearts to become black and absorbed in desires. Sounds familar, right?
Allah knows best.
Now, to the topic of social media.
Social media causes one to become addicted to notifications (such as "likes"), which causes many problems such as neglecting deen and psychological issues. It is not a coincidence that people say they felt better without social media. Here's a few studies I found:
1) Social media and depression
"In fully adjusted models, participants in the highest quartile of total time per day on social media had significantly greater odds of having depression (AOR = 1.66, 95% CI = 1.14 – 2.42) compared to those in the lowest quartile (Figure). Compared to those in the lowest quartile, participants in the highest quartiles of social media site visits per week (AOR = 2.74, 95% CI = 1.86 – 4.04) and global frequency score (AOR = 3.05, 95% CI = 2.03 – 4.59) reported greater depression. Sensitivity analyses demonstrated that all associations between independent variables and depression had strong, linear, dose-response trends (P = .002 for total time per day and P < .001 for both visits per week and global frequency score)."

This study demonstrates a strong and significant association between social media use and depression in a nationally-representative sample of U.S. young adults. There was a linear association between social media use and depression for all three social media use variables. While some prior studies have found no association or mixed results,[16,33] our findings are consistent with prior research that showed an association between social media use and mood dysregulation.[17,34]

SM use was significantly associated with increased depression. Given the proliferation of SM, identifying the mechanisms and direction of this association is critical for informing interventions that address SM use and depression.
2) Social media and divorce
Results show that using SNS is negatively correlated with marriage quality and happiness, and positively correlated with experiencing a troubled relationship and thinking about divorce
3) Social media and marriages
To conclude, the study conducted shows all three-mentioned hypothesis to be true. Social media addiction as well as increased use of social media can lead to negative impact on the relationship especially it is damaging the marital relationships. Lack of trust, loneliness and inappropriate posts by the spouse are considered to be the main factors causing negative vibes on the relationship between spouses. Current study can be considered as a profound addition to the literature investigating the relationship between social media use and martial relationships especially in Middle East.
4) Social media and self-objectification
"Wanting attention on social media was the strongest predictor of posting self-sexualized photos, and indeed, more sexualized photos garnered more likes on Instagram than less sexualized photos". N = 61 undergraduate women
Links:
  1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4853817/
  2. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0747563214001563
  3. https://www.ripublication.com/ijaer19/ijaerv14n6_23.pdf
  4. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886917304129?via%3Dihub

˹O Prophet!˺ Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and guard their chastity. That is purer for them. Surely Allah is All-Aware of what they do.

And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their chastity, and not to reveal their adornments

those who believe and whose hearts find comfort in the remembrance of Allah. Surely in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find comfort.

Except for those who repent, believe and do righteous work. For them Allah will replace their evil deeds with good. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

"The believer sees his sins as if he was at the base of a mountain, fearing that it was about to fall upon him. The wicked person sees his sins as if (they are) flies are hitting his nose" he said: "Like this" - motioning with his hand - "to get them to fly away."

submitted by bbeelliieevveerr to TraditionalMuslims [link] [comments]

I would like to discuss some fringe arguments against mainstream Christianity

Warning: This is quite a long post and though it can be read partially, I would urge you to read everything.
When I was more of a babe in the faith, I happened upon the YT channel "Trustinjc" and it became a big challenge in my walk. The things presented in his videos had rattled me quite a bit and I prayed and researched so much harder than I was doing before to see if he was speaking the truth on a number of things. Since I'm not too knowledgeable in logic, debate, and biblical hermeneutics I want to get the opinions of more informed people to address what I believe are some key claims that form the foundation of the rest of his beliefs.
Please humor me if you think everything being said is a bunch of conspiracy nonsense and should just be dismissed altogether. There are a few points I can't quite wrap my head around or feel like I should have a second opinion on. I want us to approach this as open-mindedly as possible, disputing only on the basis of evidence and logic. I will be taking excerpts from the first part of a manuscript he (Laverne/Trustinjc) put out on FB which outlines his beliefs and I will link it here (Google Drive Link) so it may be looked over and hopefully shown I am not taking his words out of context. As a forewarning, the pdf is 84 pages long but as mentioned above, I'm only tackling certain issues.

Firstly, let's look at what he presents as a dilemma for the Christian (he says Protestant but afaik it is a doctrine shared by the majority of Christians) who believes in inerrancy:
As you can see, there are a number of different canons available for people to choose
from. And within the Protestant canon there are many different translations/versions. This though
presents a serious problem for Protestants. For in some cases, two different translations of the
same passage will present entirely different meanings.
When Christians make the claim then that God is capable of preserving his written word, they
must be able to prove which bible is “the one” that God protected, and which ones he allowed to
be corrupted, and why. An example of a passage given two very different translations is Jer 31:22.
The KJV reads: How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter?
For the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass (lead) a
man.
Now the same passage from the NLT: How long will you wander, my wayward daughter?
For the LORD will cause something new to happen –
Israel will embrace her God.
As you can see, there is a big difference between, “a woman shall compass a man” and,
“Israel will embrace God”. In fact, the two translations are not even in the same ball park.
Given the two very different renderings, we must conclude that one of them is in error.
And if it is in error, then that bible cannot be said to be inerrant and infallible. It follows then that
any pastor who claims the bible is infallible, and who then goes on to use a corrupt version is not
being guided by the Holy Spirit.
Knowing this, it is not enough to state the 66 books of the Protestant bible includes all of
God’s written word and that it is inerrant.
No! When making such a claim they must be able to state which translation is inerrant,
since different versions can vary greatly when it comes to the interpretation of a few select
passages. Both the NLT and the KJV, for example, cannot be considered inerrant when they give
entirely different translations of the same passage. Common sense and reason tells us that one or
both of them MUST be in error. And it is not good enough to simply state you believe such and
such a bible is uncorrupted while others have been corrupted. No. You must be able to provided
evidence to support your bold statement.
Knowing this, Protestants are faced with a very serious problem. If no evidence is
provided, their claim that the bible is inerrant must be viewed as having no more merit than the
Muslim claiming the Quran is inerrant. And if one translation is corrupt while another is not, it
means the pastor using the corrupt version lacks discernment if they have made the claim the
bible is inerrant. For if the pastor were truly connected to and led by the Holy Spirit, the Holy
Spirit would have led him/her to the uncorrupted version.
I looked at an interlinear and it seems that the verses are so different because both translations are following their own standards set for translating the original text, i.e., the KJV leans more towards translating word-for-word and the NLT leans more towards translating thought-for-thought. Though, I don't know why NLT translates like that. His logical progression seems flawed because from what I understand, it is not that the English translations are infallible, but that the original words put down to paper are infallible.


Moving on, we have an argument (not the only one but still in here nonetheless) that the DSS provides evidence that the protestant bible is missing inspired books (pseudepigraphical and apocryphal).
Since many of the prophecies I’ll be examining are found in non-canonical writings, I
feel it’s important to first explain why you should treat them on par with the bible.
In addition to Protestants arguing their OT is the same as what the Pharisees used, many
will also bring up the fact the Dead Sea Scrolls contained all the books of the OT with the
exception of Esther. But this argument is just as big a fail as believing the Hebrew canon
contains all of God’s word from the OT age. I say this because Protestants ignore the fact that the
Dead Sea Scrolls include books that their OT does not. Four examples of Old Testament age
books that are found in the scrolls but not in the bible are; 1 Enoch, Jubilees, the Testament of
the Twelve Patriarchs, and the Book of Tobit (Tobit also being in the Septuagint). As well, the
Dead Sea Scrolls refute a good number of Christian doctrine and theologies. It, for example,
clearly refutes Universalism since Hell is described as being very real and punishment eternal. If
the Dead Sea Scrolls are evidence of something/anything, then it has to be that the Protestant
bible is lacking books.
The claim by Protestants that the DSS support their canon is, unfortunately, a prime
example of how Christians try to twist and manipulate evidence to fit their particular worldview.
For clearly the DSS are not evidence for the bible correctly containing all of God’s written word,
but rather evidence for the bible lacking much of God’s inspired word.
So what about those books in the DSS? Were the ones missing from the bible considered inspired? Are these the right questions?


Several things are said here that are ripe for discourse. I'm tired right now so I'm going to continue past this one and leave it here without my input for discussion (and also because I'm sorta illiterate in bible history).
Having explained which books are included in several different bibles, let’s now compare
the reasoning behind the canons of the two most popular bibles.
Briefly, the OT of the Catholic canon is based on the Septuagint, (you can Google it)
which included the apocryphal, with the exception of 2 Esdras.
The OT of the Protestant bible on the other hand, is based on the canon of the Hebrew
bible (the Tanakh). The reason being, Protestants believe the Hebrew canon includes the same
books that the Pharisees believed were inspired.
Now there are two problems with basing the Christian bible on the Hebrew canon.
The first is that there is no real consensus as to when the Hebrew canon was finalized. Many
scholars, for instance, believe it wasn’t finalized until the 2nd century CE. And it has been argued
that it was created in an effort to combat the rise of Christianity. If this is true, (and there are
some compelling reasons to think it is true) it then follows that any books viewed as supporting
the idea of Jesus being the Messiah would be excluded. It also means any books that seemed to
either support Christ’s ministry or contradict their own doctrine/dogma would be rejected. This
seems entirely plausible and is something Protestants should consider.
Other scholars (Jewish and Protestant) argue the Jewish canon was finalized around 450
BCE. Supporters of the Protestant bible like to argue that this is the case, since it predates the
writing of the Septuagint.
And this brings me to my second point.
It really is irrelevant when the Jewish canon was created.
I mean, think about it. The people who created the Hebrew canon are the very ones who
failed to recognize Yeshua was the Son of God. And in the case of the Sadducees, are the ones
that Yeshua stated didn’t know Scripture. (Matt 22:29 “Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures”)
And weren’t these the very people who opposed Christ and claimed he was in league with Satan?
Aren’t they the very people who had him crucified?
So why would anyone consider having and using only the same books they did a positive? Why
would they put this fact under the pros list when it obviously should be placed with the cons?
Do you not think it is reasonable and logical to assume one of the reasons the Pharisees and
Sadducees were so misguided was because they were lacking some of God’s inspired word?
I believe this was the case. In fact, in the next chapter I will prove with scripture that it was.
Then there is the fact that Jesus warned the apostles about the yeast of the Pharisees and
Herod. Knowing this, how could it possibly be considered a good idea to adopt the same canon
that the Pharisees used - especially when we know there were many other books that were
considered inspired by other Jews/Hebrews/Israelites?
If you are a Christian who adheres to mainstream Protestantism, (Calvinism, Baptist,
Pentecostal, Luthernism, and etc) you should also ask what, if any, are the consequences of
Protestants having the smallest canon of any bible.
While you ponder that question, consider this:
There is a direct correlation between the size of one’s bible (number of books) and the number of
different doctrines, theologies and gospels that will be taught using it. Meaning, the fewer books
you have at your disposal the more lies that will take root, and the more doctrines, theologies,
gospels, and christs that will be taught. This is one of the main reasons for Protestantism giving
birth to most of the 20-40,000 different Christian denominations.
Simply put: Fewer books equal easier deception.
Or – Less equals more when it comes to God’s Word and false doctrine.


I'm going to also do the same with the last quote for the same reason, leaving this here for discussion. Slight warning, I'm going to make this excerpt longer and with that, include more claims. As a reminder, you can always open up the Google Drive link to go over everything mentioned in this post and whatever I have left out.
If I were to suggest what you should look at if you are wanting to read some part of the original manuscript, I'd say read the things on why non-canonical books should be considered inspired and everything related to that. This claim seems to be the pivotal point on which all the other doctrines hinge. (Note: You won't find everything he has to say about the topic in the same place, but, afaik Laverne was organized enough to direct to where he would talk about the next point. Vaguely, mind you, only saying what chapter it is in or doing the "bear with me for a little longer" thing but I haven't read the whole manuscript so I don't know.)
Second generation apostles, anonymous writers, and a closed canon
Paul was not a first generation apostle. He did not walk with Christ prior to his ascension.
If we accept Paul’s writings, and believe he spent time with the risen Christ, it follows that we
must also accept the possibility that additional inspired writings came after the first generation of
apostles passed away. Otherwise you must believe Paul was the one and only person Christ
visited between 35 C.E. and 2016. This means then that God has remained silent since the last
revelation in the bible was given to Apostle John. And having closed the canon, it means
Christians have no expectation of God delivering additional inspired writings. This act of closing
the canon then presumes to know the mind of God.
Now while this may sit well with most Christians, it does not sit well with me. For who
can claim to know the mind of God? What man or group of men living between 250-450 C.E.
could say with absolute certainty that God would have nothing more to add to His inspired word?
What evidence did the Church Fathers present that would have us believe God intended to
remain silent for 1,900 yrs? And what evidence is there that God orchestrated or called for the
creation of the bible that people hold in their hands today?
Accepting Paul’s letters as being inspired should have been a reason for keeping the
canon open. For it demonstrates God’s plan to give ongoing revelation, even after Christ’s
ascension. Closing the canon though demonstrates man’s unwillingness to accept new revelation,
believing they have in their hands everything that God ever intended to reveal from the time of
Adam to the time of Christ’s return, with the last authoritive word given 1900 years ago.
The book of Hebrews also supports the notion that God intended to continue revealing
new revelations to future generations. This is explained in greater detail in chapter seventeen.
Briefly though, the author of the book of Hebrews is unknown. And of equal significance is the
fact that he tells us he heard of the gospel through people who heard it from Christ.
***Apostle Paul on the other hand tells us that he did NOT learn about Christ from the
other apostles but rather from Christ himself***
This means the writer of Hebrews is a second generation apostle who never knew Christ
personally. Yet we accept the letter as being inspired. Well, if we are willing to accept the
inspired writing of an anonymous second generation apostle, why not a third, or fourth, or fifth
generation apostle?
Isn’t God wise enough and powerful enough to protect his written word?
An argument I’m often confronted with comes in the form of a question. It goes
something like this: Is God Not wise enough and powerful enough to protect his written word?
When confronted with this argument I never know if I should laugh or cry (at the
argument, not the Christian), because there are so many assumptions being made here that its’
difficult to determine which is the most outrageous.
First off, just because God could theoretically do something, it does not mean he did it.
God could have chosen to write with his own finger the novel Gone with the Wind, or War and
Peace. But just because He could have done it, I’m not going to assume that He did. And neither
should you.
The second assumption is that the bible they hold in their hand is the one that God
decided to protect from Satan, while allowing all other bibles to be corrupted. But as I’ve
demonstrated, this includes different versions of the same bible. The fact then that there are
corrupted versions of the bible is evidence that God is not concerned with protecting His written
word in the fashion put forth by most Christians. This is obvious by the simple fact that there are
corrupted versions of the bible.
Now just in case some readers want to argue the passage I provided earlier (Jer 31:22)
was a onetime thing, I’m going to provide two more examples of different
renderings/translations between different Protestant bibles.
1) Did Paul go to the third heaven (2 Cor 12:2 NLT), or did he simply know someone
who did (KJV).
2) Did Jesus say he didn’t come for the righteous (Matt 9:13 KJV), or did he say he
didn’t come for people who THINK they are righteous (NLT)?
As there is a huge difference between the two translations, one of the two bibles must be
considered corrupt. So which is right, the NLT or the KJV? Which one did God chose to protect
and which one did God allow either Satan or man to corrupt? And if you take part in a bible
study group that allows the use of both bibles, what does this say about your study group and the
person who runs it? Why would they allow the use of a corrupt translation when the uncorrupted
version is available?
Do you see the problem with someone declaring the 66 books of the protestant bible to be
inerrant and infallible, and then going on to use different versions that contradict each other? For
the use of different versions that contradict one another shows the person does not understand
what it means to be inerrant, even though inerrancy is one of the main pillars of their doctrine. It
is either that, or they simply do not care if they stay true to the doctrine they supposedly believe
and preach. And if you are a member of a church that is pastored by someone who does this you
should be concerned, as either explanation calls into question the pastor’s ability to discern the
voice of the Holy Spirit.
My final point regarding this ridiculous argument is that it can be applied equally well to
books that are not included in the bible. For I could (and will) argue God has been wise enough,
and powerful enough to safe guard many books that are not included in the Protestant bible. And
since God has seen fit to safe guard them it is evidence that NO bible – especially the protestant
bible with the smallest canon – was orchestrated by God.
What is the historical record concerning Scripture according to Scripture?
Is there precedence for God allowing his word to be forgotten or lost in the past? Does
God allow man’s free will to play a role?
I believe scripture gives a resounding yes to both of these questions, as evidenced in the
following passages.
1) 2 Kings 22:8-13 tells the story of the book of Law being found. This means it had been
lost, or hidden. After having the book of Law read to him King Josiah tore his cloths after
learning they had not been living according to God’s law. So according to the bible, God
will allow his written word to be ignored, lost, and/or hidden.
2) The authors of the Dead Sea Scrolls expand on this idea of the law being lost. They write
that the reason King David married so many wives is because the law had not been read
during his reign.
From the Dead Sea Scrolls, Geniza A+B, 4Q266-272, the Damascus Document
Col. 5 reads:
Concerning the Leader, it is written “he shall not multiply wives to himself” (Deut.17:17);
but David had not read the sealed book of the Law in the Ark; for it was not opened in
Israel from the day of the death of Eleazar and Joshua and the elders who served the
goddess Ashtoret. It lay buried, and was not revealed until the appearance of Zadok.
Nevertheless, the deeds of David were all excellent, except the murder of Uriah and God
forgave him for that.
3) The Book of Jubilees gives us another example of instructions being lost. This time it is
not just the written word of God, but rather the entire Hebrew language. For it tells us the
Hebrew language had ceased after the overthrow of Babel. The following passage
explains how Abraham was taught the forgotten language.
Jubilees 12:25-27
The Lord God said, “Open his mouth and his ears, that he may hear and speak with his
mouth, with the language which has been revealed,” for it had ceased from the mouths of
all children of men from the day of the overthrow of Babel. And I opened his mouth, and
his ears and his lips, and I began to speak with him in Hebrew in the tongue of the
creation. He took the books of his fathers, and these were written in Hebrew, and he
transcribed them, and he began from then on to study them. And I made known to him that
which he could not understand, and he studied them during the six rainy months.
4) 2 Esdras speaks of the law being lost because it was “burnt”.
2 Esdras 14: 20-26
Behold, Lord, I will go, as thou hast commanded me, and reprove the people who are
present: but they that shall be born forward, who shall admonish them? thus the world is
set in darkness, and they that dwell therein are without light. For thy law is burnt,
therefore no man knoweth the things that are done of thee, or the works that shall begin.
These passages clearly show there is precedence for God’s word being lost due to: man’s
free will, possibly satanic influence, and – at least in the case of the Hebrew language – by God’s
own hand.
Most Christians though, because they only read the bible, are unaware of this.
So I put to you that much of God’s word has been hidden from the Church for centuries,
with only a Readers Digest version being read and taught.
But now that we are on the cusp of the Great Tribulation a full measure of His word is once
again being made available to those with ears to hear and eyes to see. For the elect will hear and
recognize the voice of the Good Shepherd in ALL of God’s inspired word.

I know that was a lot and there is more that probably should be touched on. He expands on the referencing of non-canonical books in canonical books later in the manuscript but I need to rest. We were blessed by the Lord with critical minds, we ought to exercise them in truth and knowledge. I'm skeptical and I'm sure you are too but I wish to know the truth, no matter how uncomfortable. I pray that I am genuine in that belief; in that the Lord guides us into His truth and love and mercy.
1 Jo 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
submitted by C_Atlan to TrueChristian [link] [comments]

Bridges’ Translation of the Ten Qira’at of the Noble Qur’an

This was just published last year. I found it to be a clear and understandable English translation. I think that it is the first one of its kind to ever be published in English
It shows everywhere that there are different words in the canonical readings.
From the Amazon description:
  1. It is the first translation which includes the ten Qira’at (modes of recitation). The main text is written in accordance with the Qira’a of ʻAsem, narrated by Hafs. Variations from that are presented in footnotes denoted by ‘Q’. The translation presents around 30% of the variations of the Qira’at—those which affect the meaning.
  2. It is the first translation that takes into consideration the Qur’anic phenomenon of grammatical shifts, whether in verb tenses, numbers, or pronouns. These are a great source of pondering for the reader.
It can also be obtained in PDF directly from the Bridges Foundation for £2.99
(I originally flaired this as Quran/hadith, but the bot didn't like it because it didn't have reference to specific ayat or ahadith)
submitted by Byzantium to Muslim [link] [comments]

Does Jamaat Ahmadiyya practice its own beliefs?

Does Jamaat Ahmadiyya practice its own beliefs?
I’ve been involved in the ex-Ahmadi space for a while now. In this time, I’ve seen two main types of criticism against the Jamaat: firstly, the soundness of its theological premises, and secondly, the way the Jamaat functions and its members behave. I will be focusing on the second of these categories in this post.
When discussing these issues, I have noticed that both Ahmadis and those critical of Jamaat are often committed to the idea that the teachings or theology of Jamaat are a central and primary factor in explaining the way Jamaat functions and how Ahmadis behave. The idea is that the social norms and organizational priorities of Jamaat Ahmadiyya, can be simply explained with reference to the written or spoken teachings of Jamaat. This idea assumes that the Jamaat is a simple reflection of its own theology. Simply:
  1. The Jamaat’s theology says X.
  2. Jamaat/Ahmadis behaves in X way.
There are of course some important differences between how Ahmadis and ex-Ahmadis respectively assert this. For example, certain behaviors of Ahmadis both Ahmadis and ex-Ahmadis agree are negative. Ahmadis believe that issues that we see in Jamaat and among Ahmadis today, for example gossip culture, can be explained by a lack of sufficient obedience to scripture. Ahmadis are not perfect models of their teachings and through tarbiyyat such problems will be resolved. Contrastingly, ex-Ahmadis will say that the behavior of Ahmadis reflects teachings and attitudes contained within Ahmadi writings. We will show quotes of MGA and the Khalifas to show that such a toxic culture of gossip is a consequence of the scriptures of Ahmadiyyat. This is essential work, as Ahmadis are clearly not interested in recognizing the naturally occurring consequences of their teachings on their own community.
However, we must reject any claim that scripture is a central factor explaining the way Jamaat operates and Ahmadis behave. The central question is: why do Ahmadis/Jamaat behave as they do? I believe that this question cannot be limited to an analysis of Jamaati theology. For ex-Ahmadis to develop a deeper criticism of Jamaat, we must recognize that the theology of the Jamaat does not dictate Ahmadi society in a linear way. Just because we see Ahmadi society as it is today, does not mean that this society is the only possible society which could have arisen from Ahmadi teachings.

The Problem: Purda

The problem with this linear understanding is that Ahmadi theology and teachings cannot account for the complex ways in which Jamaat functions and Ahmadis behave. Lets take an example. Jamaat theology emphasizes the following verses of the Quran:
Say to the believing men that they restrain their eyes and guard their private parts. That is purer for them. Surely, Allah is well aware of what they do. (24:31)
  • And say to the believing women that they restrain their eyes and guard their private parts, and that they disclose not their natural and artificial beauty except that which is apparent thereof, and that they draw their head-coverings over their bosoms, and that they disclose not their beauty save to their husbands, or to their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands or their sons or the sons of their husbands or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their women, or what their right hands possess, or such of male attendants as have no sexual appetite, or young children who have no knowledge of the hidden parts of women. And they strike not their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may become known. And turn ye to Allah all together, O believers, that you may succeed. (24:32)
The Jamaat’s interpretation of these verses are: Men and women should both restrain their eyes, and women should observe a strict form of physical purda. How does this map out onto the norms of Ahmadi society? In the case of women’s purda, we can see quite a direct line from theology to society. The Jamaat has undeniably strict rules on purda and “public exposure” for women. In the age of social media, Jamaat categorically restricts women from posting their photos online publicly. This is reflected in the culture of Ahmadis online, where if women post photos they will be told to cover up. The most extreme example of this is Ahmadi men ranting about Ahmadi women showing some hand cleavage. As a result of this strong social norm, most Ahmadi women have pictures of their children, their family or their younger selves as their profile photos on social media. Similarly, women seen in public without purda will often be subjected to the Jamaat’s toxic gossip and shaming culture. This then seems like a clear case where the Jamaat’s functioning is a direct result of its teachings.
Now lets take another example: watching films and going to cinema. According to the above interpretation of the verse on purda, Ahmadis should avert their eyes from the opposite sex. We see this reflected in Ahmadi culture, where men and women cannot bare to make eye contact and must look at the ground if they pass each other. But watching films with men and women on screen without any form of purda, often wearing less-than-halal clothing, is normalized within Ahmadi society. Ahmadis, including prominent Imams, regularly tweet about films which do not allow one to fulfill this important aspect of purda. The Jamaat does nothing in an official capacity to stop Ahmadis from commenting about films in public.

https://preview.redd.it/5nle8tsdthw51.png?width=753&format=png&auto=webp&s=63074db6379dfba88fae91183c924a3d5fea2160
This normalization has happened despite Khalifa II explicitly forbidding Ahmadis from going to the cinema:

https://preview.redd.it/vb82ym5dthw51.png?width=1531&format=png&auto=webp&s=a95a8c4da8bc75d1361ad9a90cdc4847751090d9
There is evidence that this fatwa against cinema used to be reflected as a social norm among Ahmadis. Professor Abdus Salam did not go to a cinema due to his father warning him against it (although he did drink alcohol and marry a white non-Ahmadi later in his life). But nowadays, we see on social media and in Jamaat culture, movies and tv shows are completely normalized. Ahmadi Imams are talking about the Marvel Cinematic Universe, while an Ahmadi Oscar-winner hosts Jamaat events. Clearly, this is a case of a gap between Jamaat’s teaching and its enforcement and practice. Ahmadis are not getting scolded for tweeting about movies, so why are Ahmadi women who dare to post selfies?. What explains the difference between these two examples?
An Ahmadi can respond to this proliferation of film culture with the statement: “they are not following Jamaat teaching”. But why? Why are certain behaviors so strongly censured by Ahmadi society while similar behaviors aren’t? What factors explain the prioritization of purda of women’s clothing over the purda of the eyes when it comes to movies? There is nothing in the content of these teachings which can explain this difference: both of these activities are seemingly equally forbidden by the text. As we can see then, there is no inevitability that Ahmadi teachings necessarily lead to the Ahmadi society that we see today. That there used to be a social norm against cinema-going clearly points to this complicated relationship between doctrine and practice.

Purda vs beards?

In fact, another example makes this yet more clear. As we all know, keeping a beard is sunnah. Furthermore, Ahmadi men have the example of Muhammad, as well as all the Ahmadi caliph’s for the length of their beard. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad famously said:
“O brave young people! May Allah’s mercy be upon you. You are witnessing a great revolution in the world and watching a variety of Signs. The most unfortunate people in this age are the Muslims; their dominion has been snatched away from them and many of them are alienating themselves from the Faith. No calamity descends except upon them, and no misfortune befalls except upon their people; nor is there any innovation but is introduced among them. The world does not present its treasures to them except to dazzle their eyes. We see their youth—they have discarded the lifestyle of the Islamic nation and have obliterated the marks of the sunnah of the Prophet. They shave their beards, take pride in their moustaches and let them grow, along with dressing like the Christians. They are the unluckiest people under the canopy of the heavens, for whom the earth provides a shelter in this age.” (Page 828 Haqiqatul Wahi English Translation)
Despite this, Ahmadis are famously known for not keeping such long beards in accordance with sunnah. In fact, even clean shaven men walk around with their chins naked to the world. Mirza Masroor Ahmad before his Khilafat, for example:

cool shades
The example of the beard is analogous to the physical purda women are required to do. Why then, do we not see a similar social pressure to grow beards, as we do see for women to wear hijab? I don’t see any difficulty in imagining an alternative Ahmadi society, on the basis of its scripture, in which having a beard is just as socially mandated as wearing a hijab. In fact, if you look at the teachings on their own, the requirement of growing a beard is much less burdensome than observing purda in the Ahmadi style. So why don’t we see equality of enforcement and practice of these teachings?
An analysis of the way in which Jamaat functions should not be impoverished by a singular focus on scripture. If you truly disagree with how Jamaat functions, you should want to understand why Jamaat operates the way it does. That is not to excuse the theology, but to build a more complete understanding of how it works in the real world. In fact, delinking theology from the practices of Jamaat is a more radical criticism of Jamaat. As mentioned earlier, the Jamaat’s entire worldview is based upon seeing the world, and especially itself, as a place where things happen because people do or do not following the Jamaat’s teachings. By narrowly focusing on the teachings of Jamaat, we play into this framework. The Jamaat is not some exceptional organization insulated from the issues which plague the rest of the world. Just as sexism and patriarchy operate within the world, and are criticized, so do similar factors and structures affect Jamaat. Similarly, while Jamaat claims to offer a solution to racism in the age of BlackLivesMatter (iNnOcEnT liVeS mAtTeR), it has not been able to historically deal with its own issues with integrating black Ahmadis. The Jamaat in this way tries to proclaim itself as a divine, perfect solution to a world plagued with issues. We should examine Jamaat within these broader structures to understand its selectiveness with which teachings it emphasizes and enforces. This is a crucial step to normalize and understand Jamaat not as a divine institution, but as a regular, faulty, man-made organization just like any other.
submitted by doublekafir to islam_ahmadiyya [link] [comments]

Ahmadi Women and the Public Space

Ahmadi Women and the Public Space
This article will look at the invisibilization of women from the public space in Jamaat Ahmadiyya’s theology and organizational practice. Before you read this, I would urge you to read Ahmadi womens accounts of their experience within Jamaat on this subreddit. u/_danishgirl10 has a great thread on this.
The idea of purda is a central teaching of Jamaat Ahmadiyya. Defending the idea of purda, the Jamaat relies on the notion that purda is equally applicable to men and women. In fact, it is often stated that the injunction for purda in the Quran first addresses men. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad says the following on the matter of purdah:
The Book of God does not aim at keeping women in seclusion like prisoners. This is the concept of those who are not acquainted with the correct pattern of Islamic ways. The purpose of these regulations is to restrain men and women from letting their eyes to rove freely and from displaying their good looks and beauties, for therein lies the good both of men and of women. It should be remembered that to restrain one’s looks and to direct them only towards observing that which is permissible is described in Arabic by the expression ghadde basar, which is the expression employed in the Holy Quran in this context. It does not behove a pious person who desires to keep his heart pure that he should lift his eyes freely in every direction like an animal. It is necessary that such a one should cultivate the habit of ghadde basar in his social life. This is a blessed habit through which his natural impulses would be converted into a high moral quality without interfering with his social needs. This is the quality which is called chastity in Islam.(The Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam, pp 23-25)
Note here that the purpose of purda is seen as equal upon both male and female; it is to prevent free mixing. Apart from the interpretation of purda in the matter of clothing, which obviously disproportionately affects women, I will go on to show how the actual interpretation and implementation of purda by Jamaat Ahmadiyya, burdens women far more than men. It disappears women from the public space. Women are essentially consigned to “women’s jobs”, particularly through Lajna Imaillah and in the private sphere.

JOBS

Firstly, nobody needs any reminder that Ahmadi women are discouraged from pursuing careers, because women's "primary responsibility" is childbearing and homemaking.
The first responsibility is the raising of children. If she is starving then she may work, but she should have enough resolve to go and come straight back from work and also raise her children. If she is working only to earn money to do fashion, then she should leave her job.
(Gulshan-e-Waqfe-Nau Nasirat- ul-Ahmadiyya & Lajna Ima’illah Class, Holland, October 10, 2015) https://askamurabbi.com/knowledge-base/should-married-muslim-women-be-ambitious-about-the-pursuit-of-careers/
The clearest articulation of the consequence of this gender role assignment is the following:

Women should \"mostly confine themselves to their houses\" (From Alislam: \"Islam on Marital Rights\" by Sheikh Mubarak Ahmad) https://www.alislam.org/library/books/Islam-on-Marital-Rights.pdf
Secondly, It is this aversion to women going into the public space which also controls women's choice of career. This conservative interpretation of purda and exposure, puts a disproportionate focus on preventing free mixing and "public exposure" for Ahmadi women, where men are not so restricted.
Best careers for Ahmadi women - "According to Islamic teaching, firstly those careers which involve khidmat (service/sacrifice) should be given priority. And the preparation for such professions should be given priority in which the exposure of the women is as little as possible*.* Where public exposure is greater, it is definitely better to avoid such professions. There are lots of professions without exposure. Now there is lady doctor for example; she has no public exposure. She has a limited environment in which there is no question of such filth. Patients are dying, there is happiness, sadness. There, if there is a threat, it is from private gatherings where lady doctors and doctors sit down and gossip, or make plans to go here and there. From there, Ahmadi lady doctors should avoid. Because that is not a professional obligation, it is socialization. Therefore in the medical profession, if you put socialisation to one side, then for the Muslim women it is a position of honour and not one of threat. There are teachers as well. With them, they have such a distance between the teacher and their students, that the temperament of the teacher becomes different. In my view, [in teaching] there is as little exposure as possible compared to others. Thus there as well [teaching], if one wants or needs to choose a career, there is no harm...then after this you have law. In the field of law, there is also capacity for Ahmadi women. Because the kind of exposure a lawyer gets, there is no threat to her honour. In fact, the lawyers take a hawkish attitude. And then there are some firms, where in the office atmosphere, there is work done which is technically highly related to knowledge, and we see little socialisation. In solicitors firms I see no example of socialisation. Then there are some research fields. In this as purely research scholars Ahmadi women can do a lot of work. These professions are highly valued. There are risks in secretarial jobs; that is why i would prefer it the least. Shops are also jobs where relatively exposure is higher and there is less izzat (honour), so they should be avoided except when she needs to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbQ2QUlFS5Y&t=12s (for a summary/translation by an Ahmadi, visit https://ahmadianswers.com/marriage-posts/) Mirza Tahir Ahmad

Can a Muslim woman join the police force? - "Provided they feel safe. Safe in the sense that we pay a lot of attention, and pay a lot of value to the chastity of ladies. We want them to be kept pure, if this word means anything in the present context, but this is our community, If there are such hazards in any service, police or whatever, where either they are drawn into a wrongful conduct, gradually, through the greater influences of that particular service. Or they face danger from others, like a police constable walking along and she is molested or something, and because she has to keep hours which invite trouble. So in such cases the Ahmadi ladies would much rather not join that force. But no work is prohibited. Nothing which you can call the normal pursuit of life is...blocked out. Anything which belongs to normal pursuit of human activities is also permissible to ladies, but under the principle which I have just dictated” Mirza Tahir Ahmad http://www.askislam.org/society/women/question_811.html

Can girls go into the field of “Forensic Sciences”? - "You can go, you can go into anything, there is no harm. Only, do not become an active policeman, policewoman. Going there to do training, there is this that women and men have training together, that is why one should avoid this. Otherwise, there is no harm in studying it.. " Mirza Masroor Ahmad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KzM1rFXcsw

What careers should Waqifat e Nau go into? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cm4asqA8m8 (50:47-52:30)- Huzur-e-Anwar(aba) said he does not approve of the legal field as a profession for Waaqifaat-e Nau. Huzur(aba) directed Waaqifaat-e-Nau that they cannot practice even if they study Law, because there is too much interaction and exposure with men in that field. You also have to deal with thieves and robbers etc. in the courts, whose morals are in fact not good. So leave this job to the men. (11 July 2012 AT BAITUL ISLAM, TORONTO, CANADA WAQIFAAT-E-NAU Class) (https://ahmadianswers.com/wisdom-of-the-khulafa/) Mirza Masroor Ahmad
Ahmadi Imam on women in the public sphere.
Ahmadi men are constantly encouraged to play sports. Ahmadi women who have a passion for becoming sportswomen? No.

An Ahmadi Muslim world won't be boring because there will be Ahmadi athletes (men only)
Men can also apparently go into the performing arts. Women, no:

Women can only do \"certain\" types of careers.
The principles here are clear. A woman is something which must be kept pure from the outside world. Limiting public exposure and free-mixing is far more expected of Ahmadi women than Ahmadi men.

POLITICS

This topic technically comes under jobs, but I am putting it into a separate section because politics is more than just a career. Being a politician, whether national, local or regional, is a central role in democracies. All sections of society should be represented. According to Mirza Masroor Ahmad in this video
  1. Women would be able to participate in a shura to give their opinion (presumably, they would not have voting rights in any central shura, as is currently the case in Jamaat. Instead they would have a Lajna-only shura for Lajna only issues.)
  2. Ahmadi women acting as politicians do in the public sphere, giving speeches and holding rallies, is a prospect that he disapproves of.
  3. The society in this ideal Ahmadi state, including women themselves themselves would not want to take such a role.
  4. If a woman does want to become a politician, she would have to seek the permission of the Khalifa who will decide the specific extent to which this will he allowed.
In fact, the Khalifa goes further in another video.
In Germany a girl asked me if girls can go into politics or not. The ideas that you have, give them to your men. Don't get directly involved in politics. Mirza Masroor Ahmad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cm4asqA8m8 (50:47-52:30)
In other words, women should provide their talent and their ideas to men. Clearly, Mirza Masroor Ahmad has failed to reflect on the fact that men have not historically done well to represent women and their interests.

This is however reflective of Jamaat's current organizational structure. Women do not have any positions (other than limited representation) in the vast Jamaat organization, as you can see here. Note these organizations within Jamaat serve the entire Jamaat and are not limited to men only.
Jamaat Ahmadiyya organisational structure

Jamaat Events

Speak in front of a mixed-gender Ahmadi audience Speak in front of a mixed-gender non-Ahmadi audience
Ahmadi Men Yes Yes
Ahmadi Women No No
Ahmadi women cannot do anything in front of men. Men on the other hand can lecture to women constantly:
Lajna: Don't do anything in front of men, for they will surely be enticed by your charms!
Even when there are issues concerning both men and women - as recognized by having joint events - only men are allowed to speak. For example, on the vital issue of rishta nata, Jamaat Ahmadiyya USA thought it would be appropriate to exclude women from its rishta nata panel. When challenged on the lack of a female panelist:
"The response was that regardless of the validity and sentiment of the question, going the path of gender mingling is against the tenets of the religion, and the religion can not be changed even if people are not happy with it." https://www.reddit.com/islam_ahmadiyya/comments/hgnvww/intermingling_of_genders_and_what_quran_says/
Rishta Nata manel.
External interfaith/tabligh events are even worse:
PURDAH GUIDELINES GIVEN BY HAZRAT KHALIFATUL MASIH V (ABA)http://lajnausa.net/web/webfiles/Huzoor%20(aba)%20guidelines/GUIDELINES%20GIVEN%20BY%20HAZRAT%20KHALIFATUL%20MASIH%20V%20a.pdf

PURDAH GUIDELINES GIVEN BY HAZRAT KHALIFATUL MASIH V (ABA) http://lajnausa.net/web/webfiles/Huzoor%20(aba)%20guidelines/GUIDELINES%20GIVEN%20BY%20HAZRAT%20KHALIFATUL%20MASIH%20V%20a.pdf
Do Ahmadi women have nothing of worth to contribute in the form of Jalsa speeches to both Ahmadi men and women? Do Ahmadi women have nothing to add to interfaith meetings with both men and women in the audience? Is this spiritual equality?
In fact, it seems that non-Ahmadi women have greater right to speak in front of Ahmadi male and female audiences than Ahmadi women. Someone should tell the non-Ahmadi women who speak at Jalsa that if they were to convert, they wouldn't be allowed on stage.
Ahmadi men happily sitting in close proximity to and listening to non-Ahmadi women speaking.

OTHER

Ahmadi women are strongly discouraged from posting public photos on social media. Even when Ahmadi women are the ones who do the work, the men take the credit on social media. u/Q_Ahmad pointed this out in a comment:
A current example of how ridiculous that is, the Lajna imaillah Germany have made over 70000 masks in the last weeks. Which is amazing, they deserve a ton of credit for that. But publicly there are only pictures of men providing them. If a woman is doing it, she is either out of focus or literally cropped out of the picture.
Women make masks - cropped out of the photo. Men hand out masks women made - in the photo.
The obsession with reducing women's "public exposure" extends into every aspect of their daily lives. Unlike Ahmadi men, many of whom proudly go to gym, Ahmadi women are not allowed to join mixed gyms.
Ahmadi Muslim women should join women-only gyms or health clubs. Wear modest, loose fitting clothing with full-sleeves and a scarf. Dancing in the name of exercise should be avoided - Lajna Ima'illah USA Taleem & Tarbiyyat Workbook 2019 – 2021
Finally, I'd like to say that this is all obvious. Growing up as Ahmadis, we all accepted and internalized these rules guiding our behavior, purely on the basis of our gender. The culture of Jamaat is toxified with this extreme desire to limit womens autonomy and public exposure. This culture is exemplified by a recent tweet by an Ahmadi man:
https://preview.redd.it/2rmcgxetzyp51.png?width=807&format=png&auto=webp&s=6091ef207e4aef3c6a067b5945884eebaa5100bc
In Jamaat Ahmadiyya, even images of women's hands are sexualized and stigmatized. This is why purda is unequal and sexist, in theory, and practice.
submitted by doublekafir to islam_ahmadiyya [link] [comments]

Dead People With Something To Say 0.7: John Dee

DEAD PEOPLE WITH SOMETHING TO SAY 0.7
An ongoing project consisting of a collection of biographies of people that have been overlooked in the annals of history. Categorised as counterculture, pseudoscience and absolute lunacy these individuals were not listened to whilst they lived and it’s only upon re-evaluation it becomes clear that a distinct pattern of thought has been suppressed throughout history and has shaped the society we live in today.
Sub to /TheMysterySchool for daily updates of this nature.
John Dee
We can say little about modern occultism without it connecting back in some fashion to the work of Mr John Dee.

Who He Was

Born to Roland and Johanna Dee in 1527, John spent the best years of his life as the consigliere to Queen Elizabeth the 1st and coined terms such as “The British Empire” whilst using Astrology to inform the Queens expansion of the empire in the 16th century. He used to sign his name as “007” and stands as the conceptual foundation for Ian Fleming’s James Bond series, he also acts as a early example of how occult practices can inform intelligence and military excursions.
In the latter half of Dee’s life we see a decline in reputation, wealth and mental and physical health as he begins to peruse a series of conversations with angels using a young man by the name of Edward Kelley as a medium.
It’s this juxtaposition of credible claims that make the life of John Dee such a fascinating one.
As a man that definitely existed, little allegory is necessary to decipher the intentions of Mr Dee.
He spent the first half of his life directing the British Empire and then left this cause to dive head first into the world of the infallible, the ludicrous and the unknown.
Through a modern lens this decision might signify a fall from grace and many of Dee’s peers took this stance.
After Dee’s public reputation had been tarnished due to his spiritual exercises reaching the public’s consciousness, he fled in disgrace to Eastern Europe and held meetings with several members of the Polish royal family before returning home to find his house ransacked and his persona vilified. Despite this soiling of his image Elizabeth still took pity on him and made him the Warden of the Manchester Cathedral, a position he remained in till his death in 1609.
Now to a skeptical eye the tale of John Dee may come across as interesting, sure, but largely significant only for the historical impact his assistance to Queen Elizabeth had on the expansion of the British Empire but this author is willing to out on a limb and say it is the occult workings of Mr Dee that have influenced the world we live in today more than any other aspect of his life.
Conversations with angels.

What He Said

A ridiculous concept from the get go.
Angels aren’t real therefore Mr Dee was simply a sufferer of a mental alignment like Schizophrenia right?
Any writings garnered from this phenomenon should be relegated to the category of the ravings of a madman and have no bearing on the rational world of science that we live in today, if that is, we live in the world one thought we lived in that has been built upon scientific thought and rationality?
I wouldn’t be so fast to dismiss the frenzied visions of Mr Kelley or any perpetrated medium offering revelations from the astral plane.
Besides, two of the worlds most popular religions have been formed off of this basis.
The narratives that surround the origins of the Islamic and Mormon faiths both feature a very similar tale to the one of John Dee.
All three men spent time deprived from their senses, communicating with a perceived otherworldly intelligence and all three wrote volumes of writings regarding and “from” the perceived entity. Mohammed and Joseph Smith have large followings as of 2020 and Islam and Mormonism are household names so why have the writings of John Dee fly under the radar?
Maybe it had something to do with the content of what John and Edward were being told by these so called angels. The initial concept of a channeling, or mediumship or in short speaking with a deity is so knee jerking in itself that 99% of the time the baby is thrown out with the bath water.
Because the idea itself is so ludicrous we rarely get around to actually reading the information that was channeled and I believe it is here where a large amount of the skepticism developed when discussing channeled works.
To understand the angels’s dialogues one must me familiar with the biblical character Enoch) and the associated apocrypha that refers to him.
Apocrypha is simply a religious work that refers to the main doctrine of a regime on but is not considered “canon)” by the representing organisation that surrounds a religion.
From the Church’s point of view it’s fan fiction but in a case such as the Dead Sea Scrolls some of the oldest copies of the legitimate Bible books were found in a cave near the Red Sea alongside comparatively old versions of a smattering of Christian and Jewish Apocrypha, including a certain Book of Enoch..
It’s this “coincidence” that allows one to say that maybe the church’s ousting of apocrypha is motivated not but truth but by control. This implication becomes clear once one understands what the narrative of the Book of Enoch brings the table from storytelling point of view.
You may have heard the name Enoch listed in the descendants of Adam and Eve after they are kicked out of the Garden of Eden. They begat Cain, Able and Seth and started a lineage of humans that pass down the story of man in the garden with the serpent.
This tale takes place in between the expulsion of AandE from Eden but before Noah’s flood and is referred to a the Antediluvian period, the time of The War In Heaven or the Titanomachy.
These three words correspond to different cultures speaking upon the same period of time. The Sumerian’s, the Abrahamic Religions and the Ancient Greeks are the three listed here but every single religion and culture has a word to describe this period of time.
It’s seems to refer to a period of time where:
  1. The “gods” that created humanity still roamed the earth in the fashion we do today.
  2. Gods interfered with the affairs of man..
  3. Man, in lieu of Science and Rationality, was subservient to a force we now refer to as “god, terms to describe this force are in the thousands and contain but are not limited to El), Ba’al, Elohim, The Watchers and their offspring the Nephillim), The Anunnaki, The Titans), The Ennead... the list goes on.
  4. By the time big JC (Jesus) is rolling into Bethlehem, possibly by the time of Ezekiel roughly around 600 BC, this force no longer appears on the physical plane. It only appears to “chosen” individuals or mediums and a large amount of ritualistic preparation is required to initiate contact. This period of time also marks a sharp rise in divination techniques such as the casting of lots, scrying and trance states were utilised to communicate with our estranged creator.
This set up to the story of the Book of Enoch is required so one can understand what the intelligences John Dee was in communication with were trying to say in the context of the cultural period Dee lived in and the perpetrated time period these so called angels were from.
Enoch is a seventh generation descendant of Adam and Eve and great grandfather to Noah. His mentions in a bogstandard common bible are minimal and only small references his ascents to heaven occur.
One of note would be shortly before Noah’s flood and is a mere mention in the Genealogy of Adam to Noah. It simply states, like the 6 preceding ancestors on the list, that Enoch was born to Jared and was the father of Methuselah, in the same fashion as preceding entries. Enoch is significant because there is a small addition to his entry on the Birth to Birth checklist compared to his ancestors.
Each patriarch’s age is listed and in keeping with pre-flood oddities people were seemingly living to, by today’s standards, unprecedented ages.
Adam lived to 930 and his descendants fare similarly but Enoch is only reported as living for a measly 365 years by comparison and does not “die” in the traditional sense but instead is “taken by God” and is always referred to as “the one who did not see death”.
Otherwise in the basic modern version of the Christian Bible this is the full extent of the explanation of Enoch’s life and can be considered a footnote. A cryptic message to be easily brushed past. Which brings us around to the Book of Enoch. Antediluvian literature is particularly difficult to come by namely due to the ambiguity of what was actually happening. Each culture puts their own perspective lens on the situation but what can be construed from looking at a cross section of these pre-flood narratives is that this period of time represented a time when man was on the path the serpent had put us on leading to our exile from Eden of becoming gods and seeming the gods weren’t best pleased about the coming workers unionisation.
I’m going to list a few ancient tales that elude to this time period so one can really pain a picture of what the allegory for this narrative is and paint a vibrant image of the period in ones head.
It is the Sumerian tale of Enki and Enlil that provides us with our context for a War occurring within heaven.
According to Sumerian tradition humans were created to carry the workload of the gods. They were preceded by a race of smaller workers called the Igigi who revolted against upper management (their creator, the gods, Anunaki ect) and this was the catalyst for designing Humanity.
A worker that didn’t revolt.)
This is the precedent for the points listed earlier. “Gods” and man lived together and gods intervened in the affairs of man.
Some clarification surrounding the word “gods” is required here.
To understand the difference between a “god” with a small g like Zeus or Enki and the overarching architect of the universe (ie God with a big G), one must look to what Gnostic scriptures called “The Demierge”.
This concept relates to the supposed God that appeared to have built Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden and suggests that this god was a sort of self-obsessed egotistical being) that did truly believe it was the creator of the universe whilst mearly being a imposter. Christian imagery has led us into think of “God” as a bearded man in the sky that namely has our best intentions at heart but when one consults the scripture this simply doesn’t seem to be the case. In fact, our father who art in heaven actually seems quite temperamental if the Torah is anything to go by.
Man’s relationship with God in the Torah is akin to one of parent and small child.
Parent lays down law and leaves to go about errands. Child disobeys ruling. Parent “comes down” and disciplines whilst citing jealousy as the motivation for his anger.
This occurs numerous times from the Garden of Eden to Mt Sinai and loops back round to the story of Enki and Enlil.
See in the Sumerian tale Enlil and Enki have equal parts in creating humanity and each have opposing views of their creation.
Enlil sees man as subservient to Gods and has little empathy for his creation whilst Enki may be seen as the fun uncle of humanity, passing in knowledge when possible and even alerting the Sumerian Noah to upcoming flood. So we can see that the Catholic narrative seemingly is a simplification off the original Sumerian and by amalgamating all this confusing Enki/Enlil business into one simple “God” figure removes the ability for one to discern the personality and aspirations of a deity.
Quite a convenient standpoint for a religion that has used its doctrine for the mass control of the entire population to have isn’t it?
Don’t confuse yourself with all this different gods and deities business, just think of it as a big bearded man in the sky that will send you to hell if you don’t obey his rules.
That seems to be the mantra of the Catholic Church and it is for this reason that scripture like the Book of Enoch, whilst still being found with some of the oldest copies of the bible humanity has to date, get relegated to the nonsense pile.
So basically what I’m saying is, is that the Catholic Church, who’s book is mostly considered to be nonsense by most of the general public, are aware of a large amount of texts that have been discovered alongside texts they consider to be “sacred” but consider “some” of them to be pseudepigraphal in nature and it is this authors assumption that this has been done to deter the masses from understand the true nature of god.
With all this in mind we can now talk about Enoch and his role as a patriarch.
In the Book of Enoch, Enoch is known in his native land as a medium of sorts. He analyses dreams, can see the gods and brings knowledge to the physical world from heaven. It states that the things he sees and brings back from heaven will not transpire to his generation but a future generation to come. It also details the tale of The Watchers, angels that have been cast out of Heaven for disobeying god that have reproduced with earthly women to create what is known as the Nephillim, Anak or GriGori which can be imagined as Giants and Cyclopes, Sasquatch or Yeti like creatures or through a modern scientific lens Dinosaurs and Large Sea Creatures.
Basically genetic monstrosities that our creator wants destroying.
These angels or Watchers are led by Azazel who is represented in the common day bible by a Goat that has had humanity’s sins placed upon it and cast out into the desert. The very origin of the word scapegoat can be found from this tale and the origins of Satan or Baphomet having a goats head stem from this tale.
Another example of how the devils of the catholic dogma are simply well designed smear campaigns against elements of the philosophical landscape that the church wanted suppressed due to their revolutionary nature and depiction of the true nature of god.
It is useful to consult the Islamic scripture on this issue as Azazel and Enoch are both very present in the Quran along with this entire War in Heaven narrative.
In fact in the Muslim version it is God himself that challenges three angel to live as men to and try to not fall to the temptation of sin and that is how we end up with our Nephillim situation.
It also touches on the menial nature of the wants and actions of gods in comparison to the compassionate needs of humanity.
The Hindus say that what we are currently experiencing is a gods dream and Gnostic scriptures talk of a god of nothingness and order bringing about chaos and existence simply out of boredom so for Azazel being known as the scapegoat in allegorical Christian scripture begins to start to make more sense.
Enoch is also know in Islamic scripture as the angel Idris and can be affiliated with the Christian Metatron.
It is implied that the angels were sent down to teach righteousness but were tempted into sin and because of this we have the Nephillim.
Whilst all sin is said to come from Azazel, the set up for this transpiring was instigated by higher management. Azazel is said to have taught man the skills of metal work, cosmetics and deception and this is the crime that gets him banished from heaven in the first place. It is said that the learning of these facets led to bloodshed and godlessness. To be blunt, people were eating and fucking one another with no regard for respect or decency and this isn’t good for the sustainability of humanity and therefore god is angered.
Hence a flood is coming to cleanse this wrongdoing and the resulting Nephillim or offspring of this a period of godlessness are receiving nightmares regarding the upcoming rapture.
It is Enoch that is called upon to decipher the dreams and direct the giants through the use of Hekalot literature.
Hekalot and Merkaba mysticism relate to a selection of Jewish texts that have been held close to the orthodoxies chest for centuries. Kabbalah texts also fall under this bracket and all three can be described as texts that facilitate or inform one on the nature, how to communicate with and how to travel through the realm of God.
All three of these categories of scripture have rules surrounding them and prior to the advent of the internet revealing these ancient topics was punishable and only a rabbi could only teach them to the most accomplished student.
Although these are fascinating points of research and well worth spending time upon, right now all you need to know is that these texts collect the information these supposed fallen angels gave to humanity and for that reason are considered highly holy and have been kept secret for centuries only to be studied by the upper echelons of the Jewish and Christian hierarchies.
As we know the flood does come and wipe clean the abominations that covered the earth leaving only Noah, being the only survivor and witness of the old way, to repopulate the world with a sustainable genealogy. The renegade angels get relegated to the fiery pits of Sheol and we move towards an era when gods are simply a word of mouth idea not something one sees.
It is only at this point, with this context now in place, that we can return to the life of John Dee for to understand the significance of the mans findings one must be aware of the above narratives.
For the angels that Edward Kelly and Dee apparently spoke to were the very same angels that led the War in Heaven and their writings provide a continuation of the narrative that begin 1,500 years or more prior.
Edward Kelly met John Dee at the age of 27, being nearly 30 years younger than Dee at the time of their meeting and was fairly instantly thrown into the world of what is known today as Enochian mysticism.
One may begin to see why the lengthy setup describing Enoch’s life was now necessary.
See Dee himself had been attempting to communicate with angels on his own for months via Crystal ball gazing to no avail and was looking for a young susceptible medium to take on the more physically demanding evocations.
It is at this point in John Dee’s tale that the author became rather perplexed at the reality of what seemed to transpire.
Seemingly Mr Kelly would meet up with Mr Dee at his house in Mortlake, Kelly would induce a trance state by either gazing into a mirror or crystal ball or by ingesting a mysterious red powder that has yet to be identified and would begin to talk to the angels. Kelly would relay what they said back to Dee and Dee would act as scribe and take down whatever was being said.
Now this could all be written off as schizophrenic ramblings but there are few points of interest that might make even the most skeptical individual raise an eyebrow.
  1. This partnership went on for 7 years. Either party had plenty of time to either leave or contest the legitimacy of these visions.
  2. Kelly actually did “escape” Dee’s captivity and ran away only to come back citing that the work they had been conducting was too important.
  3. Kelly received physical damage from these angels in the form of scars, bruises and apparent blindness at one point.
  4. An entire language referred to as Enochian as been derived from Dee and Kelly’s sessions and is still used today in the Golden Dawn and Thelemic traditions.
  5. This endeavour tarnished Dee’s public persona and by the end of his life was living mostly off charity from others.
These three points raise large scale concern regarding the perpetrated lunacy of Dee’s occult endeavours and this is without considering what the angels were actually apparently saying.
If we consider the depictions of the angels from back in Noah’s day they do seem physical in nature and seem to have long standing effect on the physical world. Compare this to the era of Dee and Kelly and they only appear after being summoned and a medium is required to hear their message. Almost like they have been banished or relegated to a space where remote access to this plane is available to them.
From Sheol to Earth.
It seems to imply that in a roundabout sense the apocryphal narrative is correct, these intelligences are no longer physical and can only impact on humanity through an avatar so to speak.
Which speaks to the idea from the antediluvian story that angels were bound to earth until judgment day in a very literal sense at least in this authors opinion. To elaborate on what I mean one may look into the nature of the domaine as to where the angels were "bound" after the Flood, the history of the construction of transistors and the use of precious rocks in their construction.
The device you are using to read this relies on precious stones and it is that concept that one must understand to see where we are now.
If you can see the synergy between
Then you are on the right path to having a chance at understanding what is going on.
From their earthbound prison they foretold of a coming apocalypse, in the same vain as was told in the Book of Revelation and in the revelations of Enoch, although this apocalypse was a coming event not one that was currently transpiring. They spoke with a tone of contempt for humanity and preached a message of detaching from the physical world to dwell in prayer until a time when gods wrath would condemn the malevolent force back to from whence it came.
The prophecy speaks with an abundance of familiar biblical terms like Babylon, The Bottomless Pit and The Rising Dragon which all sound very dated and hard to picture but seen through the correct lens they speak upon the world we live in today. Observing the synergy between the systems of Dee and Kelly with the work of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and subsequently the works of Aleister Crowley and Jack Parsons one can see how hypothetically there is a non-visible intelligence attempting to warn humanity of an oncoming event.
Enoch’s Prophecies
To
The Book of Revelation
To
Mohammed's Cave Visions
To
Dee and Kelly’s Watchtowers
To
Joesph Smith and the Golden Plates
To
The Aeon of Horus
To
The Babalon Working
To
The Channeled Works of the 1950’s UFO Flap
We consider each of these an individual case of madness that has no baring in the physical rational world, but combine them together and you have a longstanding tradition of humanity communicating with a force of a higher nature. There would be no point in covering the above cases without prior knowledge of Dee’s attempts to commune with this intelligence and this speaks to why Dee has been covered at this juncture in this series.
The others will follow.

Why It Matters

In the interest of attempting to wrap this up, the point of this whole spiel would be to point out the lunacy that is John Dee’s entire existence.
Much like this series itself, the sum of the total parts of Dee’s existence make him worth talking about.
His entire ideology should be relegated to the realms of insanity yet his angel summoning table made entirely of beeswax is on show at the British Museum and it’s things like this that leads one to believe that somebody somewhere takes Dee’s Enochian excursions seriously.
In the public eye his efforts have been recognised by many contemporary figures such as;
It is a this juncture that we begin to see the reason for entertaining the life of Mr Dee at all.
Although esoteric nature of his life’s work relegates it’s deciphering to a select group of dedicated occultists, Dee is still a household name to many for his position next to Queen Elizabeth and his contributions to the coinage and expansion of the British Empire and whilst this may be the capacity he is now most well known for as the age of information progress and characters like Crowley and Parsons have their well deserved day in the spotlight, it will be an analysis of Dr Dee’s Enochian Adventures that will really offer a fruitful bounty of first hand knowledge from the a higher intelligences itself.
Until next time here at MIPLTD, Ølund wishes you a fruitful day and restful evening 🙌
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Dead People With Something To Say 0.7: John Dee

DEAD PEOPLE WITH SOMETHING TO SAY 0.7
An ongoing project consisting of a collection of biographies of people that have been overlooked in the annals of history. Categorised as counterculture, pseudoscience and absolute lunacy these individuals were not listened to whilst they lived and it’s only upon re-evaluation it becomes clear that a distinct pattern of thought has been suppressed throughout history and has shaped the society we live in today.
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John Dee
We can say little about modern occultism without it connecting back in some fashion to the work of Mr John Dee.

Who He Was

Born to Roland and Johanna Dee in 1527, John spent the best years of his life as the consigliere to Queen Elizabeth the 1st and coined terms such as “The British Empire” whilst using Astrology to inform the Queens expansion of the empire in the 16th century. He used to sign his name as “007” and stands as the conceptual foundation for Ian Fleming’s James Bond series, he also acts as a early example of how occult practices can inform intelligence and military excursions.
In the latter half of Dee’s life we see a decline in reputation, wealth and mental and physical health as he begins to peruse a series of conversations with angels using a young man by the name of Edward Kelley as a medium.
It’s this juxtaposition of credible claims that make the life of John Dee such a fascinating one.
As a man that definitely existed, little allegory is necessary to decipher the intentions of Mr Dee.
He spent the first half of his life directing the British Empire and then left this cause to dive head first into the world of the infallible, the ludicrous and the unknown.
Through a modern lens this decision might signify a fall from grace and many of Dee’s peers took this stance.
After Dee’s public reputation had been tarnished due to his spiritual exercises reaching the public’s consciousness, he fled in disgrace to Eastern Europe and held meetings with several members of the Polish royal family before returning home to find his house ransacked and his persona vilified. Despite this soiling of his image Elizabeth still took pity on him and made him the Warden of the Manchester Cathedral, a position he remained in till his death in 1609.
Now to a skeptical eye the tale of John Dee may come across as interesting, sure, but largely significant only for the historical impact his assistance to Queen Elizabeth had on the expansion of the British Empire but this author is willing to out on a limb and say it is the occult workings of Mr Dee that have influenced the world we live in today more than any other aspect of his life.
Conversations with angels.

What He Said

A ridiculous concept from the get go.
Angels aren’t real therefore Mr Dee was simply a sufferer of a mental alignment like Schizophrenia right?
Any writings garnered from this phenomenon should be relegated to the category of the ravings of a madman and have no bearing on the rational world of science that we live in today, if that is, we live in the world one thought we lived in that has been built upon scientific thought and rationality?
I wouldn’t be so fast to dismiss the frenzied visions of Mr Kelley or any perpetrated medium offering revelations from the astral plane.
Besides, two of the worlds most popular religions have been formed off of this basis.
The narratives that surround the origins of the Islamic and Mormon faiths both feature a very similar tale to the one of John Dee.
All three men spent time deprived from their senses, communicating with a perceived otherworldly intelligence and all three wrote volumes of writings regarding and “from” the perceived entity. Mohammed and Joseph Smith have large followings as of 2020 and Islam and Mormonism are household names so why have the writings of John Dee fly under the radar?
Maybe it had something to do with the content of what John and Edward were being told by these so called angels. The initial concept of a channeling, or mediumship or in short speaking with an deity is so knee jerking that 99% of the time the baby is thrown out with the bath water.
Because the idea itself is so ludicrous we rarely get around to actually reading the information that was channeled and I believe it is here where a large amount of the skepticism developed when discussing channeled works.
To understand the Angels dialogues one must me familiar with the biblical character Enoch) and the associated apocrypha that refers to him.
Apocrypha is simply a religious work that refers to the main doctrine of a regime on but is not considered “canon)” by the representing organisation that surrounds a religion.
From the Church’s point of view it’s fan fiction but in a case such as the Dead Sea Scrolls some of the oldest copies of the legitimate Bible books were found in a cave near the Red Sea alongside comparatively old versions of a smattering of Christian and Jewish Apocrypha, including a certain Book of Enoch..
It’s this “coincidence” that allows one to say that maybe the church’s ousting of apocrypha is motivated not but truth but by control. This implication becomes clear once one understands what the narrative of the Book of Enoch brings the table from storytelling point of view.
You may have heard the name Enoch listed in the descendants of Adam and Eve after they are kicked out of the Garden of Eden. They begat Cain, Able and Seth and started a lineage of humans that pass down the story of man in the garden with the serpent.
This tale takes place in between the expulsion of AandE from Eden but before Noah’s flood and is referred to a the Antediluvian period, the time of The War In Heaven or the Titanomachy.
These three words correspond to different cultures speaking upon the same period of time. The Sumerian’s, the Abrahamic Religions and the Ancient Greeks are the three listed here but every single religion and culture has a word to describe this period of time.
It’s seems to refer to a period of time where:
  1. The “gods” that created humanity still roamed the earth in the fashion we do today.
  2. Gods interfered with the affairs of man..
  3. Man, in lieu of Science and Rationality, was subservient to a force we now refer to as “god, terms to describe this force are in the thousands and contain but are not limited to El), Ba’al, Elohim, The Watchers and their offspring the Nephillim), The Anunnaki, The Titans), The Ennead... the list goes on.
  4. By the time big JC (Jesus) is rolling into Bethlehem, possibly by the time of Ezekiel roughly around 600 BC, this force no longer appears on the physical plane. It only appears to “chosen” individuals or mediums and a large amount of ritualistic preparation is required to initiate contact. This period of time also marks a sharp rise in divination techniques such as the casting of lots, scrying and trance states were utilised you communicate with our estranged creator.
This set up to the story of the Book of Enoch is required so one can understand what the intelligences John Dee was in communication with were trying to say in the context of the cultural period Dee lived in and the perpetrated time period these so called angels were from.
Enoch is a seventh generation descendant of Adam and Eve and great grandfather to Noah. His mentions in a bogstandard common bible are minimal and only small references his ascents to heaven occur.
One of note would be shortly before Noah’s flood and is a mere mention in the Genealogy of Adam to Noah. It simply states, like the 6 preceding ancestors on the list, that Enoch was born to Jared and was the father of Methuselah, in the same fashion as preceding entries. Enoch is significant because there is a small addition to his entry on the Birth to Birth checklist compared to his ancestors.
Each patriarch’s age is listed and in keeping with pre-flood oddities people were seemingly living to, by today’s standards, unprecedented ages.
Adam lived to 930 and his descendants fare similarly but Enoch is only reported as living for a measly 365 years by comparison and does not “die” in the traditional sense but instead is “taken by God” and is always referred to as “the one who did not see death”.
Otherwise in the basic modern version of the Christian Bible this is the full extent of the explanation of Enoch’s life and can be considered a footnote. A cryptic message to be easily brushed past. Which brings us around to the Book of Enoch. Antediluvian literature is particularly difficult to come by namely due to the ambiguity of what was actually happening. Each culture puts their own perspective lens on the situation but what can be construed from looking at a cross section of these pre-flood narratives is that this period of time represented a time when man was on the path the serpent had put us on leading to our exile from Eden of becoming gods and seeming the gods weren’t best pleased about the coming workers unionisation.
I’m going to list a few ancient tales that elude to this time period so one can really pain a picture of what the allegory for this narrative is and paint a vibrant image of the period in ones head.
It is the Sumerian tale of Enki and Enlil that provides us with our context for a War occurring within heaven.
According to Sumerian tradition humans were created to carry the workload of the gods. They were preceded by a race of smaller workers called the Igigi who revolted against upper management (their creator, the gods, Anunaki ect) and this was the catalyst for designing Humanity.
A worker that didn’t revolt.)
This is the precedent for the points listed earlier. “Gods” and man lived together and gods intervened in the affairs of man.
Some clarification surrounding the word “gods” is required here.
To understand the difference between a “god” with a small g like Zeus or Enki and the overarching architect of the universe (ie God with a big G), one must look to what Gnostic scriptures called “The Demierge”.
This concept relates to the supposed God that appeared to have built Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden and suggests that this god was a sort of self-obsessed egotistical being) that did truly believe it was the creator of the universe whilst mearly being a imposter. Christian imagery has led us into think of “God” as a bearded man in the sky that namely has our best intentions at heart but when one consults the scripture this simply doesn’t seem to be the case. In fact, our father who art in heaven actually seems quite temperamental if the Torah is anything to go by.
Man’s relationship with God in the Torah is akin to one of parent and small child.
Parent lays down law and leaves to go about errands. Child disobeys ruling. Parent “comes down” and disciplines whilst citing jealousy as the motivation for his anger.
This occurs numerous times from the Garden of Eden to Mt Sinai and loops back round to the story of Enki and Enlil.
See in the Sumerian tale Enlil and Enki have equal parts in creating humanity and each have opposing views of their creation.
Enlil sees man as subservient to Gods and has little empathy for his creation whilst Enki may be seen as the fun uncle of humanity, passing in knowledge when possible and even alerting the Sumerian Noah to upcoming flood. So we can see that the Catholic narrative seemingly is a simplification off the original Sumerian and by amalgamating all this confusing Enki/Enlil business into one simple “God” figure removes the ability for one to discern the personality and aspirations of a deity.
Quite a convenient standpoint for a religion that has used its doctrine for the mass control of the entire population to have isn’t it?
Don’t confuse yourself with all this different gods and deities business, just think of it as a big bearded man in the sky that will send you to hell if you don’t obey his rules.
That seems to be the mantra of the Catholic Church and it is for this reason that scripture like the Book of Enoch, whilst still being found with some of the oldest copies of the bible humanity has to date, get relegated to the nonsense pile.
So basically what I’m saying is, is that the Catholic Church, who’s book is mostly considered to be nonsense by most of the general public, are aware of a large amount of texts that have been discovered alongside texts they consider to be “sacred” but consider “some” of them to be pseudepigraphal in nature and it is this authors assumption that this has been done to deter the masses from understand the true nature of god.
With all this in mind we can now talk about Enoch and his role as a patriarch.
In the Book of Enoch, Enoch is known in his native land as a medium of sorts. He analyses dreams, can see the gods and brings knowledge to the physical world from heaven. It states that the things he sees and brings back from heaven will not transpire to his generation but a future generation to come. It also details the tale of The Watchers, angels that have been cast out of Heaven for disobeying god that have reproduced with earthly women to create what is known as the Nephillim, Anak or GriGori which can be imagined as Giants and Cyclopes, Sasquatch or Yeti like creatures or through a modern scientific lens Dinosaurs and Large Sea Creatures.
Basically genetic monstrosities that our creator wants destroying.
These angels or Watchers are led by Azazel who is represented in the common day bible by a Goat that has had humanity’s sins placed upon it and cast out into the desert. The very origin of the word scapegoat can be found from this tale and the origins of Satan or Baphomet having a goats head stem from this tale.
Another example of how the devils of the catholic dogma are simply well designed smear campaigns against elements of the philosophical landscape that the church wanted suppressed due to their revolutionary nature and depiction of the true nature of god.
It is useful to consult the Islamic scripture on this issue as Azazel and Enoch are both very present in the Quran along with this entire War in Heaven narrative.
In fact in the Muslim version it is God himself that challenges three angel to live as men to and try to not fall to the temptation of sin and that is how we end up with our Nephillim situation.
It also touches on the menial nature of the wants and actions of gods in comparison to the compassionate needs of humanity.
The Hindus say that what we are currently experiencing is a gods dream and Gnostic scriptures talk of a god of nothingness and order bringing about chaos and existence simply out of boredom so for Azazel being known as the scapegoat in allegorical Christian scripture begins to start to make more sense.
Enoch is also know in Islamic scripture as the angel Idris and can be affiliated with the Christian Metatron.
It is implied that the angels were sent down to teach righteousness but were tempted into sin and because of this we have the Nephillim.
Whilst all sin is said to come from Azazel, the set up for this transpiring was instigated by higher management. Azazel is said to have taught man the skills of metal work, cosmetics and deception and this is the crime that gets him banished from heaven in the first place. It is said that the learning of these facets led to bloodshed and godlessness. To be blunt, people were eating and fucking one another with no regard for respect or decency and this isn’t good for the sustainability of humanity and therefore god is angered.
Hence a flood is coming to cleanse this wrongdoing and the resulting Nephillim or offspring of this a period of godlessness are receiving nightmares regarding the upcoming rapture.
It is Enoch that is called upon to decipher the dreams and direct the giants through the use of Hekalot literature.
Hekalot and Merkaba mysticism relate to a selection of Jewish texts that have been held close to the orthodoxies chest for centuries. Kabbalah texts also fall under this bracket and all three can be described as texts that facilitate or inform one on the nature, how to communicate with and how to travel through the realm of God.
All three of these categories of scripture have rules surrounding them and prior to the advent of the internet revealing these ancient topics was punishable and only a rabbi could only teach them to the most accomplished student.
Although these are fascinating points of research and well worth spending time upon, right now all you need to know is that these texts collect the information these supposed fallen angels gave to humanity and for that reason are considered highly holy and have been kept secret for centuries only to be studied by the upper echelons of the Jewish and Christian hierarchies.
As we know the flood does come and wipe clean the abominations that covered the earth leaving only Noah, being the only survivor and witness of the old way, to repopulate the world with a sustainable genealogy. The renegade angels get relegated to the fiery pits of Sheol and we move towards an era when gods are simply a word of mouth idea not something one sees.
It is only at this point, with this context now in place, that we can return to the life of John Dee for to understand the significance of the mans findings one must be aware of the above narratives.
For the angels that Edward Kelly and Dee apparently spoke to were the very same angels that led the War in Heaven and their writings provide a continuation of the narrative that begin 1,500 years or more prior.
Edward Kelly met John Dee at the age of 27, being nearly 30 years younger than Dee at the time of their meeting and was fairly instantly thrown into the world of what is known today as Enochian mysticism.
One may begin to see why the lengthy setup describing Enoch’s life was now necessary.
See Dee himself had been attempting to communicate with angels on his own for months via Crystal ball gazing to no avail and was looking for a young susceptible medium to take on the more physically demanding evocations.
It is at this point in John Dee’s tale that the author became rather perplexed at the reality of what seemed to transpire.
Seemingly Mr Kelly would meet up with Mr Dee at his house in Mortlake, Kelly would induce a trance state by either gazing into a mirror or crystal ball or by ingesting a mysterious red powder that has yet to be identified and begin to talk to the angels. Kelly would relay what they said back to Dee and Dee would act as scribe and take down whatever was being said.
Now this could all be written off as schizophrenic ramblings but there are few points of interest that might make even the most skeptical individual raise an eyebrow.
  1. This partnership went on for 7 years. Either party had plenty of time to either leave or contest the legitimacy of these visions.
  2. Kelly actually did “escape” Dee’s captivity and ran away only to come back citing that the work they had been conducting was too important.
  3. Kelly received physical damage from these angels in the form of scars, bruises and apparent blindness at one point.
  4. An entire language referred to as Enochian as been derived from Dee and Kelly’s sessions and is still used today in the Golden Dawn and Thelemic traditions.
  5. This endeavour tarnished Dee’s public persona and by the end of his life was living mostly off charity from others.
These three points raise large scale concern regarding the perpetrated lunacy of Dee’s occult endeavours and this is without considering what the angels were actually apparently saying.
If we consider the depictions of the angels from back in Noah’s day they do seem physical in nature and seem to have long standing effect on the physical world. Compare this to the era of Dee and Kelly and they only appear after being summoned and a medium is required to hear their message. Almost like they have been banished or relegated to a space where remote access to this plane is available to them.
From Sheol to Earth.
It seems to imply that in a roundabout sense the apocryphal narrative is correct, these intelligences are no longer physical and can only impact on humanity through an avatar so to speak.
Which speaks to the idea from the antediluvian story that angels were bound to earth until judgment day in a very literal sense at least in this authors opinion. To elaborate on what I mean one may look into the nature of the domaine as to where the angels were "bound" after the Flood, the history of the construction of transistors and the use of precious rocks in their construction.
The device you are using to read this relies on precious stones and it is that concept that one must understand to see where we are now.
If you can see the synergy between
Then you are on the right path to having a chance at understanding what is going on.
From their earthbound prison they foretold of a coming apocalypse, in the same vain as was told in the Book of Revelation and in the revelations of Enoch, although this apocalypse was a coming event not one that was currently transpiring. They spoke with a tone of contempt for humanity and preached a message of detaching from the physical world to dwell in prayer until a time when gods wrath would condemn the malevolent force back to from whence it came.
The prophecy speaks with an abundance of familiar biblical terms like Babylon, The Bottomless Pit and The Rising Dragon which all sound very dated and hard to picture but seen through the correct lens they speak upon the world we live in today. Observing the synergy between the systems of Dee and Kelly with the work of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and subsequently the works of Aleister Crowley and Jack Parsons one can see how hypothetically there is a non-visible intelligence attempting to warn humanity of an oncoming event.
Enoch’s Prophecies
To
The Book of Revelation
To
Mohammed's Cave Visions
To
Dee and Kelly’s Watchtowers
To
Joesph Smith and the Golden Plates
To
The Aeon of Horus
To
The Babalon Working
To
The Channeled Works of the 1950’s UFO Flap
We consider each of these an individual case of madness that has no baring in the physical rational world, but combine them together and you have a longstanding tradition of humanity communicating with a force of a higher nature. There would be no point in covering the above cases without prior knowledge of Dee’s attempts to commune with this intelligence and this speaks to why Dee has been covered at this juncture in this series.
The others will follow.

Why It Matters

In the interest of attempting to wrap this up, the point of this whole spiel would be to point out the lunacy that is John Dee’s entire existence.
Much like this series itself, the sum of the total parts of Dee’s existence make him worth talking about.
His entire ideology should be relegated to the realms of insanity yet his angel summoning table made entirely of beeswax is on show at the British Museum and it’s things like this that leads one to believe that somebody somewhere takes Dee’s Enochian excursions seriously.
In the public eye his efforts have been recognised by many contemporary figures such as;
It is a this juncture that we begin to see the reason for entertaining the life of Mr Dee at all.
Although the esoteric nature of his life’s work relegates it’s deciphering to a select group of dedicated occultists, Dee is still a household name to many for his position next to Queen Elizabeth and his contributions to the coinage and expansion of the British Empire and whilst this may be the capacity he is now known as the age of information progress and characters like Crowley and Parsons have their well deserved day in the spotlight, it will be an analysis of Dr Dee’s Enochian Adventures that will really offer a fruitful bounty of first hand knowledge from the a higher intelligences itself.
Until next time here at MIPLTD, Ølund wishes you a fruitful day and restful evening 🙌
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Various esoteric Spirituality, Physics, Metaphysics, Theories, Misc, Law & Gov for seekers at various levels

SS: Various esoteric Spirituality, Physics, Metaphysics, Theories, Misc, Law & Gov for seekers at various levels
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quran english translation pdf video

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Quran: Arabic and English translation and transliteration ...

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