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200k in the hole. Started on a camping trip

A few people asked for my story so I figured I'd share. Writing it out has been good therapy I think.
I first played poker on a camping trip with some friends some 10 years ago when I was 16. We didn't play for money and we used one of those cheapo wallmart sets of chips. None of us had any idea what we were doing. Pretty much every hand was limped family pots and checking down to the river.
A year later my dad's boss invited me to a homegame with his staff. This was the first time I played with someone who knew how to play. It was $10 to play, and my dad's boss won all 3 tournaments he ran that night. For me it was pretty embarassing, folding straights face up because I thought I had a high card. Thinking a straight beats a flush. That kind of thing.
That night I learned that poker was more than just luck, and that good players could make money. So I became determined to learn how to play and how to win.
I started hosting games at my school. I brought my wallmart chip set to school and classmates would play with me on my free periods and during recess. Never for money though.
During this time I started reading some articles about poker strategy online. Or at least that was my intention. After reading some articles about bankroll management and leveling I read an article on continuation betting.
I didn't need to read any more articles because it only took the cbet to make me a BEAST at the school games. Pratically every player in this game was weak-tight and would limp preflop and check/fold any board that they missed. I started to win most sessions just by cbetting 100% of boards.
A couple wins under my belt, combined with my secret weapon (the cbet!), and I knew that I was destined to be a professional.
I started to host real home-games for money (none of us were old enough to play at the casino). Every second Friday we'd play a game with a $5-$10 buy-in (None of us had jobs). It took a few weeks to realise we had to increase the blinds to force the game to end at a reasonable hour, and a few more weeks to figure out a structure that actually made sense.
I tracked all the results of these tournaments over the year, and by the end it was clear that I was the best. I had the largest ROI, the most first places, the most cashes, the most final tables. Every metric that mattered. And it was all thanks to my trusty cbet.
I wanted to go pro. I had no other career aspirations so I stopped paying attention in school and would just day dream about poker. I wanted to play all the time so I signed up to pokerstars under my mum's name because I was still only 17.
Because I had no bankroll on stars I played in the freeroll tournaments every day. The field was usually 9,000 players large, and I played in the 6pm game after school ended but before I went to bed. First place payed $6, so I knew I only needed to win 1 to launch my online poker career.
I quickly learned that 100% cbet was actually not so good against the stations and maniacs that play in freerolls. I had to change the way I played if I wanted to make it to the money.
Eventually, after a few weeks of busting before the first break, I made it to the money and I cashed in at 200th place for 50 cents - which just so happened to be the minimum buy-in for the 1c/2c cash game on stars.
I FINALLY HAD AN ONLINE BANKROLL!
I immediately sat down at a 9-ring cash game and bought in with my prize winnings. It took less than 5 minutes to completely decimate my bankroll. Much to my dismay, the players sitting at the lowest stakes cash game available in the entire country played like poker GODS! What the hell? Every one of my bluffs was called down. Every time I called down a bluff they had it. It was mental, these players were so good. Unlike anyone I had ever played against before.
At this point I knew I'd have to return to my poker studies if I wanted to have any chance at all. So I picked up my very first poker book, "Crushing the Micros", because I was gonna be playing micro stakes of course. One of the early chapters talked about the concept of set-mining and this BLEW. MY. MIND. Needless to say, I didn't feel it was necessary to read the rest of the book.
So, a few weeks later when I cashed my next freeroll tournament and returned to the 1c/2c cash game I completely changed my game. I used a new strategy where I only played pocket pairs preflop against opponents with full stacks. If I missed the flop i'd check/fold, but if I hit my set i'd check raise all in if OOP, otherwise i'd triple barrel pot bet every street if I was IP. It only took a few minutes to win my first stack with a flopped set. So I cashed out of the table and bought in to two tables.
If you've never multi-tabled before, let me tell you, it's the real deal. Twice the hands means twice the speed and that means twice the winnings. It made sense to me that I could scale this as big as possible. Back then, Pokerstars would let you play 24 tables at once - So as soon as my bankroll allowed it I started playing 24 tables at once using my se-mining strategy. The beautiful thing is, it worked!
So, playing 24 tables, only set-mining, I grew my stars bankroll to $1,000. I WAS A POKER GOD and I knew it. I crushed the school games, i crushed the home-game tournaments, and now i was crushing micro-stakes online too.
The day I turned 18 I knew it was time to crush all those fish at the casino. So for my 18th birthday I got my school poker friends (the ones who were 18 anyway) to take a trip to the casino with me.
We each brought $100 with us. 1/2 was too intimidating so the floor offered to open a 1/1 table just for us. Because it was a new table and 1/1 rarely got up, it was just us at the table for most of the night. Luckily for me though, I knew I could crush these guys with my 100% cbet strategy, and throw in a bit of set-mining and my friends stood no chance. I ended up busting every last one of my friends that night yet I only finished $300 up, which didn't make much sense. If I busted them all then shouldn't I be $800 up?
In any case, it didn't matter. I'd just proven to myself I could win at the high stakes casino games. Now I knew beyond a doubt that I could beat any game I played in. Soon I would go pro.
The next year I started uni but because I had no career aspirations besides poker, I'd just stay home and play poker online each day. Sometimes i'd go to class but I'd just play poker on my laptop in class
At some point I picked up holdem manager and imported my hand histories. Over 1 million hands I had a win-rate of 0.5 bb/100 - Yeha I know, I played a shit-load of poker.
It was eye-opening though. I'd played one million hands for pennies, with a win-rate that was hardly even positive. Just imagine if I'd been crushing that whole time instead. If my win rate was 10 bb/100 i'd be up thousands.
So once again, I was determined to get better. I bought books. Lots of books. Like, enough to fill an entire shelf of my bookshelf. And I started reading.
The theory of poker was first. Every time your opponent makes a mistake, you win. Every time you make a mistake, your opponent wins. Yes, got it, basic stuff. What's next?
Professional no limit holdem volume 1. Pot odds, implied odds, stack to pot ratio. This was life-changing stuff. Simple mathemetical concepts I'd never considered before that made so much sense in hindsight. This was it, I didn't need to read any more. Like the cbet and then the set-mine, these concepts were the missing piece I needed to take my game to the next level.
Now I know you're thinking: "Yeah ok, this is great and all but can you get to the part where you lose 200k?". And yes. Yes I can.
So I started skipping uni completely to go to the casino every day. Obviosuly I realised that the rake on 1/1 and 1/2 was fucked, so I started playing 1/3. Even though I was over 1k up online, the buyins for this stake were still HUGE to me and I played pretty scared money. And honestly, I never ended up beating 1/3. I was break-even AT BEST. (I rationalised my results by blaming the high rake. It was unbeatable, you see)
But, I made some friends playing 1/3 at the casino. One guy, Billy, started to invite me to his home game. I LOVED Billy's home game because the rake was lower than the casino's and the buy-in was only $100, which was much more reasonable.
Billy had this rule, where you could buy-in for the max stack on the table. This worked well with my set-mining check-raise all-in strategy so of course I would always buy-in for the max.
One night i'm playing in this game that's been going for 2 days straight and one palyer's got a 2k stack on the table. He's one of the fishier players so I think to myself, why not? And I buy in for my entire roll. 2k.
First hand i get JJ. Flop comes AJ7r. I check, fish bets pot. "Got ya" I think to myself, and I raise all-in.
Snap call. Oh shit. He flips over AA.
I just lost my entire roll that i'd spent the past year grinding for over 1 million+ hands. I'm tilted. Billy asks me if i'm rebuying. That was my entire roll I say.
And then Billy utters the words that you've all been waiting for. "Credit?"
And yeah, basically that's it. I've played in Billy's game ever since. And funnily enough, it turns out I'm not some poker god, i'm just a grade-a egomaniac poker fish. Billy has me for 100k on his books and i've tracked another 100k in losses i've been able to repay. So i'm down 200k over my poker lifetime.
Also, I flunked out of uni. Got married and subsequently divorced due to financial arguments. If you want to know where the money's come from I can assure you it's not my parents or a trust fund or anything like that.
I sell drugs to poker players at Billy's game.
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Gabriel Le Jossec wins the ACOP Main Event

All eyes are locked on the World Series of Poker final table, which begins today in Las Vegas, as the last nine players will sit down and play for the ultimate trophy. There are a total of $10 million to play for not to mention the coveted bracelets, so the stakes are as high as they get among those who participate. Many of those who play over the Internet will take a break to watch the event live and there are many ways to watch live coverage. This doesn't mean that online action will come to a screeching hold in November, with PokerStars and other major poker rooms running their own tournaments. On Sunday, some big payouts were handed to those who made a deep run in these events and players will have new opportunities at the end of this week. Meanwhile, some of the poker professionals representing the company have traveled to Asia for the APPT Season 8 Asia Championship. The tournament lasted more than 10 days and dozens of players won six digit amounts, with the highlight of the circuit being the ACOP Main Event. There were hundreds of players who sat down at the tables and as a result the prize pool exceeded the guaranteed value and the winner was expected to win HK$6,300,000. The only thing that could have prevented that from happening was a deal made by those who reached the final table. Gabriel Le Jossec and Ami Barer were the two Canadians who made a deep run, with two players from Russia and one from the United States competing against Asian counterparts. Barer was credited with the first chance you to his decent stack and loads of experience but he was eliminated in the fourth place. Three handed game began shortly after and the remaining players decided to compete until the final hand was dealt, which proved to be a brilliant decision for the Canadian. In the heads up he outshined Sunny Jung from South Korea and claimed the first place, while the runner-up had to settle for a bit over HK$4.2 million. Check out the final standings of the PokerStars.net APPT Season 8 Asia Championship of Poker Main Event below: 1 Gabriel Le Jossec Canada $6,300,0002 Sunny Jung Korea $4,250,0003 Zuo "ST" Wang China $2,565,0004 Ami Barer Canada $2,025,0005 Vladimir Troyanovskiy Russia $1,620,0006 Konstantin Pogodin Russia $1,350,0007 Joseph Cheong USA $1,080,0008 Raiden Kan Hong Kong $813,1009 Tore Lukashaugen Norway $675,000
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FUN token. $! MOST EXCITING PROJECT RN.

!! THIS IS GOING TO BE MASSIVE !!
'FunFair is a decentralised gaming technology platform which uses the Ethereum blockchain, smart contracts, and proprietary state channels to deliver casino solutions with games that are fun, fast and fair.'
Online gambling is a large market: currently over 47.1 billion dollars, and projected to continue increasing. https://www.statista.com/statistics/270728/market-volume-of-online-gaming-worldwide/. However, this is not to say that the price of the FUN token should be compared to the market cap of internet gambling. FUN is not a measure of casino capital/wealth, it's an entirely new animal.
The team.
FunFair has their ground covered and bases loaded. With their team of 30+ professionals they are way ahead of the competition. You may know CEO Jez San, OBE, from his career track: Argonaut Games (founder), Star Fox (programmer), and PKR Poker (founder). He has been in the gaming industry for more than two decades, and has built valuable relationships along the way. Constantly engaging with the FunFair community through Telegram, Discord, and Reddit, it seems as though he leaves no engaging question unanswered. Alongside Jez as COO is David Greyling (https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidgreyling/), former International Director of William Hill, one of the world’s leading betting and gaming companies and one of the most trusted brands in the industry. (https://www.williamhillplc.com/about/). Recently, Stefan Kovach joined the team - Stef is an industry executive with a wealth of experience, having headed up the marketing functions of both PokerStars and bwin.party – two of the biggest brands in online gambling.
he platform.
FunFair presents its casino operators and players with a gaming opportunity never seen before:
Decentralized, serverless
Provably fair, blockchain-based
Trust-less outcomes that can be witnessed on verifiable smart contracts
Instant cashouts – FunFair does not hold your funds
Accessible through web browser on desktop or mobile
Fun games with an exciting user interface
Casinos feel safer, with no risk of fraudulent charge-backs from player credit cards.
Fast gameplay conducted through Fate Channels – the team’s custom version of State Channels. The Fate Channels developed by the FunFair team are superior technology. In very basic terms, Fate Channels are what supports the communication during a game session between the player and the casino. They provide a fast, low cost method for random number generation, starting gaming sessions, ending them and settling with smart contracts on the blockchain. This allows for secure, deterministic, fair gameplay. There is only one gas fee needed to start the game session. For an in-depth explanation that you won’t be disappointed in reading, please refer the the technical white paper here: https://funfair.io/wp-content/uploads/FunFair-Technical-White-Paper.pdf FunFair is preparing for mass adoption and has a working solution for Ethereum network congestion. Fate Channels.
!! THIS IS GOING TO BE MASSIVE !!
submitted by Neverknow79 to CryptoCurrencies [link] [comments]

[uncensored-r/CryptoCurrency] FunFair - An in-depth analysis.

The following post by Commissar_ is being replicated because some comments within the post(but not the post itself) have been openly removed.
The original post can be found(in censored form) at this link:
np.reddit.com/ CryptoCurrency/comments/7o2gtl
The original post's content was as follows:
FunFair. An in-depth analysis.
Intro.
FunFair is a decentralised gaming technology platform which uses the Ethereum blockchain, smart contracts, and proprietary state channels to deliver casino solutions with games that are fun, fast and fair.
FunFair is not a casino. Instead, FunFair will license its technology out to casino operators. This differentiates FunFair from the competition in the blockchain gambling sphere – being a casino carries with it risks and burdens stemming from statutory and regulatory hurdles. Being a licensing entity instead, provides legal safeguards and will enable a more widely used platform.
I’d like to touch on the many aspects of FunFair that makes it an extremely promising and undervalued project. However, I won’t be making any price projections. As always, do your own research. In this case, I’ve done a lot of it for you.
The market.
Online gambling is a large market: currently over 47.1 billion dollars, and projected to continue increasing. https://www.statista.com/statistics/270728/market-volume-of-online-gaming-worldwide/. However, this is not to say that the price of the FUN token should be compared to the market cap of internet gambling. FUN is not a measure of casino capital/wealth, it's an entirely new animal.
The problem and the solution.
Trust. Traditional online casinos rely on you trusting them to be fair. The chance of red coming up on roulette is 48.65%. How do you know your traditional online casino is giving you those odds? You don’t – you need to trust them. Most online casinos are incorporated in island microstates. Do those nations have online casino regulators? Do they possess the willingness, manpower, and expertise to audit online casinos?
FunFair puts the gambling on the blockchain so it’s trustless – you know you have a 48.65% chance of having red come up. It’s fair.
The team.
FunFair has their ground covered and bases loaded. With their team of 30+ professionals they are way ahead of the competition. You may know CEO Jez San, OBE, from his career track: Argonaut Games (founder), Star Fox (programmer), and PKR Poker (founder). He has been in the gaming industry for more than two decades, and has built valuable relationships along the way. Constantly engaging with the FunFair community through Telegram, Discord, and Reddit, it seems as though he leaves no engaging question unanswered. Alongside Jez as COO is David Greyling (https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidgreyling/), former International Director of William Hill, one of the world’s leading betting and gaming companies and one of the most trusted brands in the industry. (https://www.williamhillplc.com/about/). Recently, Stefan Kovach joined the team - Stef is an industry executive with a wealth of experience, having headed up the marketing functions of both PokerStars and bwin.party – two of the biggest brands in online gambling.
Further, FunFair is looking to expand – and fast. They expect to have a team of 50+ people in the not-so-distant future, as they are currently hiring business and marketing professionals. So, if you’re looking for an opportunity to showcase your expertise in these fields, try your shot at securing a position within the company! (https://www.funfair.io/careers) The FunFair team’s base of operations is in London, UK.
The platform.
FunFair presents its casino operators and players with a gaming opportunity never seen before:
  • Decentralized, serverless
  • Provably fair, blockchain-based
  • Trust-less outcomes that can be witnessed on verifiable smart contracts
  • Instant cashouts – FunFair does not hold your funds
  • Accessible through web browser on desktop or mobile
  • Fun games with an exciting user interface
  • Casinos feel safer, with no risk of fraudulent charge-backs from player credit cards.
  • Fast gameplay conducted through Fate Channels – the team’s custom version of State Channels. The Fate Channels developed by the FunFair team are superior technology. In very basic terms, Fate Channels are what supports the communication during a game session between the player and the casino. They provide a fast, low cost method for random number generation, starting gaming sessions, ending them and settling with smart contracts on the blockchain. This allows for secure, deterministic, fair gameplay. There is only one gas fee needed to start the game session. For an in-depth explanation that you won’t be disappointed in reading, please refer the the technical white paper here: https://funfair.io/wp-content/uploads/FunFair-Technical-White-Paper.pdf FunFair is preparing for mass adoption and has a working solution for Ethereum network congestion. Fate Channels.
For more discussion both technical and company related, have a look at both whitepapers: https://funfair.io/explore/whitepapers/
The games.
FunFair is pursuing a full suite of traditional casino games:
  • Blackjack
  • Baccarat
  • Craps
  • Roulette
  • Slot machines (various types)
  • Let It Ride
  • Caribbean Stud
  • 5-card Poker
  • 3-card Poker
  • And more to come
You can test all of these games right now at https://showcase.funfair.io/. Some are currently testable on the Ethereum testnet.
FunFair is one of the only projects in the cryptocurrency space that has a working product. They are set to launch in the beginning of Q2 of 2018.
What have they been up to? Are they on track?
Consistently ahead of schedule and on top of their roadmap in many ways, FunFair was a sponsor of DevCon 3 and had one of the most engaged-with booth setups. They connected and networked positively with many developers at the event. https://twitter.com/FunFairTech/status/926113230677856256
They’ve recently received the Malta iGaming award for “Best ICO of 2017” which was determined by a nomination panel of 5 industry experts, and a panel of 32 judges with many years of combined experience in gaming. The awards were hosted during Malta Gaming Week; a very large event attended by many business executives, authorities, and even local government: http://maltagamingweek.com/
They’ve been constantly updating their product showcase, and adhere to all feedback received by community members. Their new showcase was designed to “be able to cope with adding more games easily by the team + third parties, and also to be configurable by casino operators.” Some of their product update can be found here: https://funfair.io/awards-latest-product-update/
How does the token (FUN) derive value?
FunFair does not issue dividends or offer profit sharing – FunFair doesn't have much to share. The technology will be licensed to casino operators for almost nothing – itself a major draw for existing casino operators to adopt the FunFair platform. With a fixed supply, the value in FUN is derived from scarcity of the token in the marketplace. Scarcity comes from four sources:
  • Casinos holding FUN as part of their bankroll (described more below);
  • Players holding FUN and not cashing it out immediately after they play;
  • Speculators (investors) holding FUN anticipating it will increase in value;
  • Token burn: a small amount of FUN will be slowly destroyed over time. The exact amount has not been announced, though it will likely be quite small.
That first scarcity factor will be key, as casinos will need extremely large bankrolls of FUN to operate a large casino with multiple games, high max bets, and a large number of seats (allowing numerous people to play concurrently).
Right now, price has been set purely by speculators. As casinos open down the road, scarcity will ramp up --- Casinos will need to buy FUN, which will lead to players buying FUN which will lead to greater popularity of the platform causing more speculators/investors to buy FUN. Scarcity and utility are what drives price.
Plans for the future & the latest company update.
FunFair will be attending the ICE Totally Gaming Conference on February 6-8 (https://www.icetotallygaming.com/exhibitors/funfair-casino). This is a major business-to-business conference for the online gambling industry. The team plans to have the developmental side of the FunFair project done in time for the conference.
Tech completion in February will allow for the advancement in operations and partnerships, which will lead to live FunFair-licensed casinos going live in Q2 2018.
FunFair is in the process of acquiring their Remote Gambling Software License from the UK, which will enable them to license their technology to existing and regulated casino operators.
FunFair has steady operational costs covered for the entire year, as well as an 85,000 ETH reserve/storage for any and all upcoming costs.
An Updated Roadmap (December 20th, 2017)
(available here: https://funfair.io/company-update-december-2017/)
Q1:
In January we will be submitting to the UK Gambling Commission our application for a Remote Gambling Software License.
In February we will be attending ICE Gaming, an international B2B conferencing event, where we will be introducing the FunFair brand to the gaming industry.
By the end of March V1 of the FunFair blockchain casino nears completion. This release will allow for real FUN to be used on the Main Ethereum Network for the first time.
Q2:
Operator On-Boarding: Deploying the FunFair casin...
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[Table] IAmA New York City underground poker player/grinder/rounder .. AMA

Verified? (This bot cannot verify AMAs just yet)
Date: 2012-08-28
Link to submission (Has self-text)
Link to my post
Questions Answers
How do you find out about these games? (Friend of a friend of a friend?) Are they mostly hosted in Manhattan or within the other boroughs and NJ as well? I've been around the games for awhile, and through the loop I've discovered more games. I started out when Manhattan would have places with 14 cash games pumping before the big shooting then they really cracked down on it.
Any casino tournament players in this? Casino players love them because it's a lot more action and talent pool is very slim. Yes there are tournaments aswell, all sorts
What's your style? New age aggressive online type or old school mathematical? I work in Information Security and part of my work is social engineering gigs where I even worked with Law Enforcement to understand body language. Have you used something like that to your advantage? Most n00bs try to look for microexpressions when it's usually the feet and torso that are sure tells. So for huge winnings, how do you stash it away? Deposits of less than $10k in different accounts? What's your educational background and before you decided to make this your living, what was your work profile? Did you start of at casinos or was it always clubs? My style is and has always been tight aggressive. I'm very selective with my hands, everything has to go into consideration. Micro expressions are good of you pick it up and you're right about the 'happy feet' and torso. There are many many tells to pick up on in addition to timing and betting patterns and tilt factor. All those things give away valuable information. Figuring out what to do with the money is always a good problem to have and im business/street savy so I find options. I went to Baruch University and ran my first game in the school lol. We actually made the papers. I dropped out to open a clothing boutique (investment came from poker) It was always clubs and casinos were secondary but still profitable.
I'm reading this while in class at Baruch, I remember people used to play in the 3rd floor game room, but they seemed too good so I never got involved. Yep gameroom .. Where it all began. We had official tables there and everything!
What do you mean by happy feet/ torso? how can you see this at the table or casino? You can't see happy feet in most cases. Torso movement you can pick up by the shirt moving, it also depends on how close you are to the villain.
Hey, thanks for the AMA, just a few questions. Do you still consider it gambling or has it become another form of employment? Also what's your average income? Does it frighten you that you may lose a lot of money due to pure chance? Biggest win/loss? What are your thoughts on online poker? If given the opportunity would you choose another job? I havent considered it gambling since i got a real grasp of the game. I don't gamble. Never played a table game, scratch off. I won't even play lotto. All my friends are degenerates so I know the deal. My biggest win was 56k but I was being staked so gave away 60%. Biggest loss is 2k. Online poker is free money if you know what you're doing. A bunch of my close friends moved to Canada just to be able to play, 4 guys combined bankroll over 2 mill. I've gone too far in poker to walk away from it. It's like 2nd nature, most places would rather me not play because I'm a tightass or parasite in their eyes lol.
What was the buy-in on the stake game? I usually play 2/5 or 5/5 and sit down with a nickel ($500) Sometimes there are really good 1/3 games and I sit with 300.
being staked. Sorry - what does that mean? Yea it's when someone buys you into the game and get a % of the profits but covers the loss entirely in the event of a loss. I only let people stake me in bigger games I wouldn't normally play with my own money.
Knowing the games like you do, what is the lowest bankroll you'd consider having to sit at a $2/5 table? I go with the 20/25 buy-ins rule because I've went on bad runs before and I would rather have the insurance. So you if buyin for 300 to sit comfortably I want to have at least 6k to work with. Most people dont follow any kind of bankroll management and go broke over and over again.
What happens if you lose all the money? I understand they get nothing back but is that really what happens or do you have to pay a little back to them as a show of goodwill? Or do they just bust you kneecaps and call it even? Nope lol, stop watching Sopranos .. They take the hit as a bad investment. So far im up with all my backers
You have never had to pay makeup? Nope.
How about ARod? I've heard he's been to these underground spots on occasion. I was at the club when he was playing. You would be surprised how many celebrities I met at games. I have met more in clubs than in casinos.
What is the culture of these games like, or does it vary wildly? I saw some elderly Jews in your pictures - is that typical, or are there businessmen, or mostly gambling types? Do women play? Do you often play against the same people or does it cycle out fairly regularly? If I WERE to, ahem, get involved in these games, how what would I want to look for in a "good" room vs. a "bad" room, if there are such categories? I guess, what makes you prefer one place over another? They vary very wildly. Most places are a mixed crowd especially since nyc is a big melting pot. There are also games that are all albanian or asian etc.. One of the biggest factors in game selection is the rake/chop. There are some games that flat out rake 10% with no cap.they do this because they give out credit and because they are greedy. A good realistic rake for a city 1/2 or 2/5 is 10% with a $15 cap. Also you want to play against action players not tight ass grinders.
How many games are typically going on (say, in Manhattan alone) a weeknight vs. a weekend? It sounds like you've been around a while - do you have any sense of roughly how many people in the NY area are doing what you do, i.e. making living off these games? Dozens? Hundreds? More? At any given time from 8pm to 4am there are dozens of live cash games going on. Weekends most places open up earlier than weekdays because of the usual working clientele.
How would you compare the average skill level? For example, if you play online what stakes would you compare these games to? The skill level now is tougher than it was 5 years ago. When ESPN had poker on all the time it was literally free money if you knew anything. Now bad players lost tons of money and tightened up, still plenty of money to go around if you know where to look.
The most common games especially in the city are 1/2NL and 2/5NL .. Although the past year or so Omaha and rotation have been gaining momentum because it's so much more action.
Instead of putting up with 10% $15 cap rake, why don't you just take the bus/train/drive to AC and play at the Borgota? I go to ac and Parx frequently but you CANNOT compare the action in clubs vs. casinos
Meaning the action in casino's is more? Right? So why would you not want to play in them? The action in clubs is more.
Borgata or Parx: which do you prefer, and which has the better action for a moderate-skilled 1/2 player? Also, Casino 1/2 PLO; is the preflop action as heavy as it's rumored to be? I've heard that at Borgata, typical preflop PLO pot is $70. I get to Parx in a hour, borgata in 2. I would go to Borgata for the weekend and give it 3 solid sessions. Borgata has more talent but there's still money for the taking in 1/2. The 2/5 in Parx is juicy if you go at the right time. Well yea in a action packed game it's going to be potted preflop. Te underground games it gets repotted often, W I L D.
I would think you have more experienced players in clubs, where you need to know people to even be allowed in the game, than the casino, where someone can wonder over from the slots. Word spreads quick especially with free rolls and stuff so people brings friends and friends of friends.
So how is Teddy KGB doing these days? Prick still owes me 2 dimes.
I see you smoke reefer. Is drug use something you see often? Are you willing to share if that answer is yes? Yes and yes I guess.. It goes w the territory, there used to be games that would spark up the entire table nonstop.
How much money have you made? I don't even want to know how much I'm up lifetime because i spent so much money doing crazy stuff. I used to not keep track but I average 2k a week for 3 1/2 nights work, cash obviously. I should've been saving but for 5 years I was making more because of action and more bad players. Also, going around the world, crazy shopping and living life.
How are you making so much from 1/2 a week? is bluffing a big part of your game? I still dont know how to incorporate it into the 1/2 cash games since most people are willing to call you light. I play 1/2s in Brooklyn. It's a younger crowd and they're either overplaying or scared money.
Do you launder your money at all? Only when I forget to take it out of my pockets.
You mentioned action at the clubs is way looser than that in casinos. What are we talking about here? Are there a lot of LAGs? Loose passive? How do you find out about the games? Are they open to anyone, or do you need an invitation or someone in the know to bring you in? How are you supposed to overcome a 10% uncapped rake? You need a huge edge over the table to make that work. Is the play that bad? Loose passive for the most part, business men that get out of work and want to fool around before going home. They won't even play, just fish. They are open if someone brings you in and vouches for you.
Where's the advice? We're all ears.. I was bluffing.
Let's say I wanted to host games. First, is there money in it? And how does the house get paid? How much would the house make from a typical game you go to? What does the house provide? Just a secure location and a dealer? Yes and waitress/massage girl. You can rake a % from every pot. You can also do a tournament with a fee say $100+$15 for the house. They make a fee thousand a night before expenses. Big games make alot.
What would the typical % per pot be? 5% with a cap is optimal for you so you won't affect the game much and still make a few.
Ever bang Famke Janssen? No but I wouldn't mind owing her money and have her come try to collect.
So you were setup by the house and not the players? Did they deal from the bottom or something? What hand did you lose with when you were 'set up'? I think I flopped a straight and he rivered a boat. He had a loaded deck, did a fake shuffle and ..
How could you tell you were being setup? 1st hand new deck, and house player beats cash player on the river suckout.
Damnnn... doesnt the deck get cut after every shuffle before the deal? I dunno the typical underground shuffling/dealing routines so I really am curious. If they can fake a shuffle they can fake a cut too eh. Although; I'm assuming there aren't permanent dealers unlike what you'd find in a casino. When a new dealer comes in every 30minutes they have a deck. They're supposed to fan it out and show the players, sometimes they'll just wash or shuffle to speed things up.
While it looks suspicious I don't think that's enough info to conclude that the hand was rigged. I've seen suck outs like that in casinos yet nobody ever would make that conclusion but because it's an underground game suck out on the river is a set up? Aren't you jumping into conclusions too early? Or did you actually see more suspicious hands which added up to the whole game looking suspicious? I've taken nasty beats as well. In Vegas I lost w quads twice in one night (no BBJ) it just didn't add up, i felt a very bad vibe and I took a shot and approached the guy. He could've denied and taken his stand but he folded instead.
Could you talk about the 1998 movie "Rounders," and how realistic/not realistic the movie was? Surprisingly realistic to some degree.
Was it really based on norm macdonald? Does a zebra have spots?
Some might.. still doesn't answer the question. I'm not aware of any Norm McDonald connection.
Thanks for doing this AMA. What do you think the biggest weakness in your game is? Do you ever pick up on live tells? I havent really been able to spot any and wonder if there is anything to it. Do you love the rounding life? Regret it? My biggest weakness is not playing more often. I do well so I only play 3/4 times a week because of gf, family, business ventures and life. Also I usually cash out once I triple up. I figure if I book a win for a thousand im satisfied, sometime I should stay of game is juicy. I pickup new tells every session. My people reading skills are definitely up to par. The money is good but the lifestyle around it is crazy .. The late night hours and characters involved. I don't regret it for a second, poker has been supporting me for a long time and has given me a flexible schedule to do other things on the side like go on reddit lol.
Thanks for the response! The one pattern I have noticed is if I play 4-5 days in a week my level of play seems to go down. Then if a take a break for a few days I always come back to stronger. I guess regarding tells there really are no global signs and its just very person specific? Caros book of tells.. Use that as your foundation
Hey man, thanks for the AMA. Enjoyed reading it so far and have a few questions. Do you still enjoy playing? Is it more work now, or a bit of both? I ask as you mentioned you don't play too much. What's the biggest misconception, or thing that people get totally wrong about what you do? A lot of people here / on Reddit will ask about playing like a pro, but only for use in their house playing against friends and family. Would there be any more general advice you'd give to people in this situation about which aspects of their game to aim to improve? Cheers. More work now .. People that dont know me and they don't know the grind just think I gamble it up trying to get lucky. I sit and wait then keep sitting and waiting and think and analyze players. Lot of information gets processed I before I even get involved. It takes me at least an hour or so to get a feel for the game. Be aggressive!
I just started playing poker, doing usually 6 table micros on LockPoker or so, and coming out for the most part winning. I have the hardest time with implied odds though, and using them accurately to calc EV and such. Can you explain them a little to me? Its just not second nature to me yet. I played a .5/1 live cash game last night and busted, it sucked but I guess its fine, last time I went I came out hundreds up, How do you deal with the bad beats? I have read mostly every 'good' poker book, but what one would you suggest I re-read? If you are playing in underground rooms, do you skip (some/all) taxes? Name on 2+2? I just got back an hour ago from a long night, I'm sorry I don't want to type novels about ev or implied odds (google it) .. I deal with bad beats very well. I do NOT get emotional, if it's normal bad beat i simply play as if nothing happened. I'll actually get more action from the table because they assume I'm steaming. If its a huge monster bad beat I either cash out or take a trees timeout, that does the trick. No clue about the book, I've read and analyzed them all and you can extract valuable info from even the worst one, it's all about the experience on the table on my eyes. I have a side business for tax purposes.
What is the business? I import merchandise and sell on amazon/ebay and to retailers
How old are you? How did you start finding these games? How long have you been playing poker? 27, I was 18 when I first discovered what goes on behind shady looking doors.
Talk etiquette. Is everyone friends? If not, are you friendly with these strangers, or is it all business? Do you shake hands, joke around, etc, or sit down, play and leave? Very friendly usually.
I see a big jewish community, as a palestinian will i get harrased if i go to one of these clubs? Not at all. Somehow everyone blends well in poker games. I know a lot of palestinians that play on the regular.
What would be the best way for a beginner to improve their game? Any specific books that you would recommend? Super system thoroughly to get your brain thinking about it. There are plenty of very good forums online (2plus2). Plenty of resources out there.
How much time do you put in studying the game away from the tables? I've always heard that for every 4 hours you play, you should spend 1 hour studying (reviewing notes, reading the books, 2+2, etc). Is that an accurate ratio? I've read all the books and go on forums all the time. I don't really have a ratio
How much do you rely on math in your play? I have a strong math/statistics background, I just finished reading Mathematics of Poker by Chen and Ankenman. It covered basic probability, bayesian probability, game theory, and heuristics for quick calculations. Do you find yourself using this stuff or is your play more intuitive? My play is more intuitive.
How much do you usually go in the room with and how much do you take out? Since every place knows me and I'm not stupid I dont walk in with cash just in case spmething goes down. If I lose I just take care of it after the game or day after. I usually have 3 bullets of 500 each. That's for an average 2/5 or 5/5 to sit down comfortably.
Do you give lessons? If so how much? I gave pointers to friends and have helped people bring their skill level up. Me and some friends were thinking of marketing private poker lessons but im too lazy. If you're close by I wouldn't mind helping you, what's your offer?
Thanks for your input, gambling is not allowed in this sense in iceland so there is no culture for that, from as neutral or personal of a standpoint that you can manage, do you think gambling in this sense is good for a society/community or does it make t worse? I don't know about society but I'm glad poker is around.
My question is how deep is Chinatown? I have heard there is gambling behind every Canal Street store creating almost a second level. Can you confirm and describe any of the places you have been in Chinatown? That was not so recent. I'm sure i could find games in c town but they all speak chinese and I definitely don't trust that.
Do you have alligator blood? Also how does one find these games? You gotta be in the loop and I'm not sure about the blood, gotta ask my primary care physician to be sure.
So presumably a lot of guys are making their living money this way? Where does the money come from? How do rubes get into the game (so that they can give you their money)? Actually most people at these games come to gamble and hangout.
What's your cover story? Do you work a day job to keep up appearances, or do you just try not to live too extravagantly and draw too much attention? Does your girlfriend/family know this is what you do? Yes they know what I do and I do daytime work as well. I definitely calmed down compared to how I used to live.
Is dealing at things like these done how movies depict it or how you would at a house game, with the "dealer" role actually moving with the button? Or is there a dedicated dealer for each game? Curiosity as a casino dealer. Same as a casino dealer.
Do you ever splash the pot? No but it's on my bucket list.
Biggest pot you were involved in? Win it? 38k pot .. Won 56k that session but I was being staked so only kept 40% .. Still booked a monster win so couldn't complain.
Wow awesome, do you look up to any pros? would you play HU with any of them if you had the br? My style is more for a full table. I know a bunch pros personally and I invite them to games when they are in town. I fly to vegas on the regular just don't want to move there because I have too much stuff going on here.
Tips on finding these games? if i live in a different state. Ask around? I can smell a game and I can pick out a poker player out of a crowd .. I'm a sick child.
What was your revelation in the game? I mean what insight really opened up your game and made you a good player instead of an average player and seperated you from the mass? I started out dealing before playing for real. After a few months I noticed that players are making plenty of mistakes I could make them pay for. I slowly started grinding and found my style and it's been working for me for a long time. It's just a grind, you wait for your prime opportunity then you maximize and wait again.
Most profitable exploit? Reraising a tilted aggressor with a set if you know he hit anything good.
Lol. step one. flop set. step two... make sure villian has something good and is on tilt. step 3.. raise. Yes, huge exploit you discovered there. Maybe you can give me a good example and I'll put it into use lol.
What's your best advice on becoming better in general at poker? Absorb as much information as possible and actually apply it! Find your leaks and seal them
Hi thanks for doing this. 2 questions. How did you fund your initial bank roll? What is a good way to work on reading people? I organized a house game and raked a little bit and went from there. Caros book of tells and just start watching people. Look at the flop and your hole cards last, first watch players and pickup info to use. You'll get used to it after awhile.
How good are you at online poker? Definitely rusty havent played for real in years.
What do you generally buy in with for a 5/5 NL? I usually buy in whatever the average stack is. If the biggest chip stack is a fish then I'll buyin for the max. $500 is the usual amount early in the night/game.
Is there anything you do to maintain your health? Sitting for hours while eating junk food and stressing over hands must take a toll on your body. I don't eat junk food and I try not to stress. I workout 5 days a week and play plenty of sports.
Is it "card-shark" or "card-sharp"? Shark.
How to you keep from going on tilt after losing a massive all in 80/20 ? I'm used to the bad beats. It's part of the game man.
How did you build your initial bankroll? I started out running a house game without any intention of playing for a income and once the game died out and I had about $800 and didn't look back m. Never went broke either, I'm owed plenty though.
You mentionned robberies/raids and it never involving the players , im wondering is your money somehow ( insured ) even in the case of a robbery by the hosts ? 99% of the time you wont get your money back, that why I dont walk in with cash. There has been cases where the house gives players money back out of their own pocket but usually people take advantage and lie about the amounts lost.
Do you play on Merge? I don't know what that is. I don't play online since they closed main sites I down years ago.
Ah, yeah just the network that US players use now. Was up in Canada last week playing on my dad's Pokerstars account. Goddam do I miss that shit. It'll be back.
Let's hope! :) Anyways in regards to your thread: what are some of the bigger names you've played with in these underground games? Players or celebrities?
Players. Matusow, jamie gold, Ivey for 5 minutes. Lots of Internet pros, sry I'm tired can't think straight lol.
When you play can you calculate in your head the number of outs, pot/implied odds and EV? I can roughly calculate the number of outs in certain hands and maybe pot odds, but it's still gets my head spinning. It boggles my mind that people can do that much number crunching in their heads every hand they are in, so I wonder if serious players actually do it? I ballpark it.
Is your thinking along the lines of "I have X many cards to make my hand, if I call $X I can win $X" and make your decision on that? That's about as far as I am right now with my thinking. For example, if I'm facing a call and I need one card to make a flush and say I need to call $3 to make $30, I will usually make the call. Is that proper thinking? Give or take .. I do all the equations in my heads during the actions while trying to read players and order a drink from waitress as I smoke a cigarette
As someone who lives an hour from AC, I can confirm that Asians love to gamble. Because they can't drive properly on the way there?
Do you ever plan on "retiring". If so, what will you? Sure why not.
I went to the casino last weekend for the first time. I went into the poker room and sat down at a 1-1 table with $60. As soon as I sat down I completely forgot how to play. I have been playing since I was like 8. I just got so nervous for some reason. Did that ever happen to you? Have you ever gotten so nervous you completely forget what you're doing? No.
Why do you think super system is relevant to the current hold em game? Frankly, why do you think 5/5 live poker is interesting enough for an AMA? I don't know.
Word met up? i have a few friends in bk. Send me a pm.
Does the place get shaked down by the mob? A few games pay for 'protection'
What is the best advice you can give to a player suffering consecutive losses? I always felt I was decent at the game, but my record lately doesn't seem to agree with me. Take a break and analyze your game. Maybe the stakes aren't right maybe your game selection is off.
What is your current bankroll? About 55k.
At what point will you move to 5/10? (i'm assuming these clubs run 1000NL, right?) I play 5/10 if a friend refers a juicy soft game to me.
The Sands casino in Bethlehem, PA has real juicy 5/10 action. $1500 max. I never had a chance to go. I'm going to check it out this coming weekend.
I'm curious about this.. I would never expect big faces in an underground scene especially since they probably know plenty of ("home") games. Why take a risk (seems like a small risk from what OP has been saying) when they can just play legit. Action and credit and comfort of it. Trees alcohol strippers whatever the players want basically.
You should crosspost this to /poker How can I do that? I'll give u poker advice in return.
I hope your not smoking them dutches also where in ny im in ny i want to play Bk all day.
Some horse/backer agreements will have a make-up or cake stipulation. The losses are originally eaten by the backer, but then a percentage of future wins goes towards paying back a percentage of the previous losses. True.
SPOILERS! I'm only on Season 2 :( He misses the gutshots :/
Came here to ask about robberies/raids. Go on.
Last updated: 2012-09-02 17:16 UTC
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